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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 22:39 
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:gatso2: Yet again words fail me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/7098383.stm

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 22:43 
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FFS :x

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"It will not advantage anyone to send you to prison," she said.

"It certainly will not bring Mr Green back and you will have to carry for the rest of your life the burden of knowing that you caused the wholly unnecessary death of a completely innocent man."

They don't say that when it's a motorist involved, do they?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 22:50 
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PeterE wrote:
FFS :x

Quote:
"It will not advantage anyone to send you to prison," she said.

"It certainly will not bring Mr Green back and you will have to carry for the rest of your life the burden of knowing that you caused the wholly unnecessary death of a completely innocent man."

They don't say that when it's a motorist involved, do they?


My sentiments exactly. Note the charge of "wanton and furious cycling" I believe this dates back to Victorian times and comes under the Offences Against the Person Act. I want no more double standards regarding laws against careless driving and cycling. It's high time there was an offence of "causing death by dangerous cycling" which must carry a prison sentence.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 22:55 
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CJG wrote:
It's high time there was an offence of "causing death by dangerous cycling" which must carry a prison sentence.

And in the absence of that, why on earth was a charge of manslaughter not brought?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 23:00 
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BBC wrote:
But she accepted Messen was a vulnerable man who had had a difficult childhood, attended a special school until he was 16 and had been diagnosed as having behavioural and medical problems


:banghead:

So this makes it OK then. :scratchchin:


Look something on wheels or four legs in the case of a horse. .. is going to be travelling faster than someone on two legs in reality. #


Why we keep on posting C O A ST for ALL out there... :roll:

But we cannot keep on making excuses for people lest "we hurt their feelings".

A bloke died as a result of this. A family is bereaved and traumatised for no fault of their own. #

We can all claim "unsound mind.. trauma.. panic reaction .." whatever. But .. sigh.. it seems as if you are educated..middling class.. decent .. responsible.. should know better and above age 25 .. you are fair game for running foul of the law even if innocent in favour of the ne'er do well who would do well if taken in hand and given some fair, firm and very friendly discipline at the precise point they drifted off the straight line. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 23:01 
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:gatso2: "A vulnerable young man with learning difficulties." Seems to be the bog standard excuse that the judiciary have these days. DESPICABLE!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 16:21 
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Mad Moggie wrote:
Why we keep on posting C O A ST for ALL out there... :roll:


Might i suggest you put a hyperlink in it every time you post it so anybody reading can find out what it is?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 01:14 
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weepej wrote:
Mad Moggie wrote:
Why we keep on posting C O A ST for ALL out there... :roll:


Might i suggest you put a hyperlink in it every time you post it so anybody reading can find out what it is?


Handy's sig :bow: puts a link to my original post on COAST. I am 100% delighted that he did so. Means a lot from Handy whose views I enjoy reading to be honest here. :bow:

It would be very arrogant of me to put a link to that post in my sig .. but I admit to being very positively enthused by the number of private messages asking me to repeat that original post which I think I typed up as much as a concerned human being over driving standards as a police officer :lol:

I am saying that all road users must concentrate on the road .. applu courtesy and common sense.. observe everything they can.. and based on what was observed.. prioriitise each hazard and proact/react by allowing Space for each manoeuvre and Time to complete these planned road user decisions. Time also means allowing sufficient time for any one journey.

It's not rocket science and it's within each and every page of the Highway Code and Road and Cycle Craft too :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 09:53 
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CJG wrote:
:gatso2: "A vulnerable young man with learning difficulties." Seems to be the bog standard excuse that the judiciary have these days. DESPICABLE!


Hmm. Leads to thinking a similar person wouldn't be allowed to drive (I hope :shock: ).

But is allowed to cycle.

Because everyone is.

So should cycling be licenced if bicycles are a "deadly weapon"?

The many would then suffer because of the actions of the few.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 13:29 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
CJG wrote:
:gatso2: "A vulnerable young man with learning difficulties." Seems to be the bog standard excuse that the judiciary have these days. DESPICABLE!


Hmm. Leads to thinking a similar person wouldn't be allowed to drive (I hope :shock: ).

But is allowed to cycle.

Because everyone is.

So should cycling be licenced if bicycles are a "deadly weapon"?

The many would then suffer because of the actions of the few.



I think that there may well come a day when we will have to register bicycles und take some test .. especially if number of users increases as result of greeny issues und prices of fuel.

But..

His "learning difficulties" did not prevent him from pedalling at steady rhythm or cadence or from knowing that this bike can go fast und faster still when using the gears properly. :banghead: To get to 25 / 30 mph .. you would still have to know how to use the gears on the bicycle he allegedly rode.

:banghead:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 13:40 
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WildCat wrote:
His "learning difficulties" did not prevent him from pedalling at steady rhythm or cadence or from knowing that this bike can go fast und faster still when using the gears properly. :banghead: To get to 25 / 30 mph .. you would still have to know how to use the gears on the bicycle he allegedly rode.

:banghead:


IIRC he was coming down a hill.

Actually controlling the speed of a push bike down a hill is requires more effort than just letting it go, same with a car.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 14:10 
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weepej wrote:
WildCat wrote:
His "learning difficulties" did not prevent him from pedalling at steady rhythm or cadence or from knowing that this bike can go fast und faster still when using the gears properly. :banghead: To get to 25 / 30 mph .. you would still have to know how to use the gears on the bicycle he allegedly rode.

:banghead:


IIRC he was coming down a hill.

Actually controlling the speed of a push bike down a hill is requires more effort than just letting it go, same with a car.



Does not make it right. He was astute enough to mouth some abuse at the witness who shouted after him just before he collide with the gentleman he killed - per all the original reports und quote from this witness both in paper und in the reported accounts of the court hearing :roll: .

He should know how to use the brakes in any case. If he knew how to ride.. set it into gears - then he knows what the brakes do regardless of his "learning difficulties" und if he was that incapable (as in not able ot know he on a hill or to place fingers to feather around rear brake to control the speed - then surely he should have been in an institution for his own self protection - never mind that of the person he eventually killed.


I am sure his grieving family feel ever so "safe" knowing he can still get on a bike und ride it. :furious: Because he still can get on a bicycle. There no law to stop him und this ist why he should be locked up und if so "mentally slow" - given some proper help in this respect.


But given these bicycles are capable of getting up to some speeds these days.. then all the more reason that we should now consider making those who use them accountable und responsible for their actions. Thus we should really be looking, as Ken Livingstone rightly suggest (und about the one rare occasion I actually agree und APPLAUD his point of view on this) that we should consider some form of registration und compulsory test for increasing numbers of cyclists on the road.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 14:43 
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WildCat wrote:
then all the more reason that we should now consider making those who use them accountable und responsible for their actions. Thus we should really be looking, as Ken Livingstone rightly suggest (und about the one rare occasion I actually agree und APPLAUD his point of view on this) that we should consider some form of registration und compulsory test for increasing numbers of cyclists on the road.


Its a hot topic in London: -

http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=74

IMO way out of proportion to the threat imposed by silly cycling, some perspective is required. It would cost silly amounts of money to operate a licensing scheme for cyclists (more than it costs for cars I imagine), its not done anywhere in the world as far as I know.

However, how do you think it would have helped in this situation?

And what next, registration plates for people on foot, who in the grand scheme of things can be quite dangerous, especially when armed with a knife or drunkenly aggressive?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 22:09 
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weepej wrote:
WildCat wrote:
then all the more reason that we should now consider making those who use them accountable und responsible for their actions. Thus we should really be looking, as Ken Livingstone rightly suggest (und about the one rare occasion I actually agree und APPLAUD his point of view on this) that we should consider some form of registration und compulsory test for increasing numbers of cyclists on the road.


Its a hot topic in London: -

http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=74




Because so many are stupidly ignorant there :popcorn:


Quote:
IMO way out of proportion to the threat imposed by silly cycling, some perspective is required. It would cost silly amounts of money to operate a licensing scheme for cyclists (more than it costs for cars I imagine), its not done anywhere in the world as far as I know.




EU has BiBs und gendarme. Swiss frogmarch pedestrians und cyclists to cash machines re on spot fines too.

Ach .. ja.. we have history of "Ausweis bitte"


YOUR PAPERS PLEASE"


That not something imagined by director of "Great Escape/ColditzStory/." whatever.

It work though as we not have so many j-walking/.lycra clad idiots as here.. but I suppose way of life und culture ist different as in we foreigners have more self respect und respect for others. :wink:

Quote:
However, how do you think it would have helped in this situation?



He would have been done for riding without insurance or qualification und been banned from riding bike to endanger in the future.

:wink:
Not that it work 100% .. but police have database und can chuck away key on re-offend :wink:

Quote:
And what next, registration plates for people on foot, who in the grand scheme of things can be quite dangerous, especially when armed with a knife or drunkenly aggressive?


ID cards. They on way not matter how you protest about it :wink:

Ach Ja.. I see only too well the arguments against. I am not in favour,. It not British culture after all. I like to think you British stay Bull dog British as this your culture .. tradition.. way of life.. what you fought Kaiser Bill und Nazis for.. for FREEDOM of speech.. mobility und if threatened you defend from the beaches .. from the heart.. from the head.. und give no damned quarter in your fight to keep what essentially a very peculiarly British culture und tradition which foreigners or borugh up foreign like me respect completely und utterly.

But an ID card.. I see the other side's point too. I grew up with them. To me it not a real problem. But then it not used to control back in Swiss Alps or EU Continent. But UK's Labour Party? Ach.. they so two faced to be honest. I not trust them any more than I trusted the KGB/Stasi when living in Moscow as student or Leipzig for 3 dismally awful months.

But on the plus side .. ID cards would identify rogue cyclists/pedestrians. The Grauniad reader seem to want them too :wink:

I concede as someone who grew up with ID requirement .. that there are merits. But. it not British way of life...:roll:


but I have to say it will be if you Brits bang on a course of binge drink fuelled anarchy und a muesli muncher CM with scant consideration to others who want to get from A to B by whatever means they are free to use as free citizens of Europe und as subjects as what was once acclaimed as the fairest Kingdom in the World. :wink:

I can gets aways with above as foreign brought up :lol:

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UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 23:29 
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My parents have to carry ID cards in France.
French accept them because it's always been so.
Here it will be an uphill struggle - not least because of the government attitude.
I'd have no objection to a scheme like the French. :) It's simply like carrying a passport, and if you get stopped for any reason, it speeds things up because they can confirm exactly who you are... as long as you dont mind having your ID confirmed. If not they are a damned nuisance, as failing to produce carries a penalty! :roll:

As to cyclists and pedestrians, if seen behaving badly, they could be sent on a common sense awareness course! :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 23:43 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
My parents have to carry ID cards in France.


Yeah maybe , but they don't have to wear them on their arses, do they?


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