Safe Speed Forums

I intended to post this up last week





So have the police - fails to light up bikes within the letter of the law.. fails to give an over shoulder glance are just as prevalent amongst cyclists as drivers

Of course KB goes off on one over the usual "cycing mag dogma






As mentioned.. "fails by each on the over shoulder look.. the COAST essentials - which should be second nature to any skilled road user of all types of wheely machines =- which is why I carry on reminding folk when on line. here




Mostly those who never bothered passing a driving test in the first place based on what we scrape up - and I base that over a long career to date. :banghead;

Along with the stupidly complacent road user - by whatever chosed mode of travel

OK - KB now seems to be sayng what the late Paul Smith did say and what many others have also been echoing .. and "speed cams are not mentioned for a change






Well .. Co Durham and N Yorks do have such. They are called RPU .. and both forces stand for no nonsense - but their professionalism appears to be appreciated by most road users out there.. and guess what .. no blinkered belief in a speed camera .. but in a police officer's dedicated professional training and objective discretion - which really does concentrate minds to safety led behaviour



Suggestion .. Bikeability Level Three and a reading and understanding of bothe the Highway Code and Cycle Craft might help to some extent... especially page 55 of John Franklin's esential book.

I would also expect drivers to re-read the Highway Code and take Road Craft/Motorbike Craft seriously Such actions would help all of us out there cope a bit better than we are at present. And if we make mistakes - then we have to evaluate ourselves objectively - and try to learn from them.

The late Paul Smith (RIP and not forgotten) suggested a notebook and to jot down any "near miss or perceived error" and think how we could have avoided .. and this helps us learn and understand the mistakes we and others make .. helping us to cope and deal with them better

OK I will agree that the study will be cold comfort to bereaved familes/pals. but as KB grudgingly accepts




I agree.


KB finishes his rather luke warm welcoming of a TRL study into cyclist v driver and driver v cyclist behaviour patterns (and I will think the late Paul's Dec 2004 advice of negotiating /liaising with each other will be one of their findings as this is common sense ) by reminding us of Dave Grundy's death. (I have posted up a request for information already on here . just in case anyone hits on the site and any information .. even if a potential witnesss thinks "unimportant" - just may put a piece into a jigsaw puzzle to investigators into these incidents

KB remonds us that in 2007 - 136 cyclists died in the U. Almost 2500 cyclists were injured. He reminds that this is increasing .. and 11% up from 2004.


I will remind KB that the numbers of cyclists has increased considerably over this period - especially in London, Durham., Darlington, Nottingham and Manchester. With increasing numbers comes increasing risk of accident and not all of these KSI involved a motorised vehicle when the stats are further analysed

I am saying that statistics cannot be taken at face value. Folk need the notes which go with them and they have to be able to understand them properly

Overall .. UK are still in the top ten. If we took out the "annual improvement calculation" - UK would still be in poll position .. but as in "Strictly Come dancing" - Europe appears to have dumbed down to the country who shows "most improvement in the year" - which means that the UK with a good record and Germany with an equally good record witll slide down the table here

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I have posted up KB's rant. Now I post the more objective follow up in CW mag.

Now this week's CW has a short piece on page 14 about this study ..encouraging all cyclists to HAVE THEIR SAY.

From a memo we have (officially) on this study which supports the CW piece = riders are encouraged to take part in this study.

This report is reportedly to be in-depth study of road conditions and how such conditions affect cyclists as part of the normal traffic

The short piece re-iterates the increased KSI since 2004.. but which I suggest may be proportional to the increase in cyclist numbers out there all the same and may not be as bad as it appears in this respect .. but will still suggest that a little more attention to COAST skills on the part of all road users can make that difference of a saved life all the same.

Sure it sounds bad to say this

I dare say some on a cycling forum will accuse me of being "callously indifferent" when in reality I do care and give a damn. It's why I nag all the time to use the extention of Roadcracraft's OAP .. as in COAST .. whereby the C and ST take the P that bit FURTHER :roll;

I am saying we all share responsibiliity for our own safety and that of others .. all the time.


Each person is only as skilled as the last drive./ ride .. walk . horse ride. The one which wnet wrong // tragically wrong is the one they answer to in a court and past expertise counts for nothing. Past recklessness, however, will count in such a situation if found guilty as charged. as this gives a profile as to character.

A "clean sheet" may not help if you have done something truly daft - even if without intent.. It may help mitigate if it is just a "speeding rap" all the same.. but you need to choose a decent lawyer to argue this positively all the same I like to think our teams handle and initiate charges oof intended prosecution obhectively and with the right professional judgement/discretion as this builds up trust that we hit hard where it matters most.

Anyway per CW and my own memo... the TRL seeks to analyse cycling activity and collision data and also survey local authorities and their Highway departments in terms of repairing roads and engineering them



Be warned cyclists . this study will be looking at how helmets help save lives. If they find the helmet reduces hed injury .. you will be looking at a LAW to make us all WEAR ONE.


Initially the report will look at known facts and clarify where further research is required. This will be complete in 2010 .. and then more resarch will occur.

I think the start of Health and Safety .. and legiislation and fines.


We warned. Salvation lies in COAST and in the lte Paul's advice as to negotiating with each other.


But if you wish to be part of the study .. call -1344 770077.




CW tells me now of the ghost bike asn a final point in this piece

. This is the equivalent of the roadshide floral shrine. A bicycle marks the site where a cylcist died. Cyclsits #say it remind of their right to travel.

I mention so folk know what such a bicycle means if they see one .


I can only suggest COAST .. negotiating ,. making eye contact with other road users .. bing courteous at all times.. keeping calm at all times. and evaluating skills objectively and always seeking to learn more.

.
I do not do the "lwa is the law" nor the "holier than thou". I hope to hit the common sense nerve. The human nerve.

And I do not ever say a police uniform means "perfectiion" either.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

why do certain people on bikes take such little responsibilty for themselves and others?

Why do they expect all burners of hydrocarbons on the road to behave in a manner that would frustrate the Pope, while they expect to ride with inpunity? I can understand people on bikes feeling very vunerable and I can understand their concerns, but I fail to understand how they can run red lights, ride with no lights in the dark and all the other mischief they get up to and then moan about every one else.

Why do certain people in cars take such little responsibilty for themselves and others?

Why do certain people on motorbikes take such little responsibilty for themselves and others?

Why do certain people on foot take such little responsibilty for themselves and others?

Apathy.. chavdom. Wayne/Waynetta slobdom ?

Weepy.. we try. We try to suggest CCOASt which does mean we have to be responsible for any decision we may make here .,

But the system is a sobering reminder of what counts., the bucket of cold water to chill out the red mist?

But we are all ultimately resonsible as road users and I simply will not exclude a cyclist or pedestrian or horse irder from this responsibility and duty of care by choosing a safety led course.


But all the same .. we have to admit that lycra louts on bike.. militant idiots who puff out lentil gas hot aired and very smelly farties .. create danger for selves and others by virtue of their own stupidity.

Now .. you know I am right. .

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

I can hear that you are a well balanced person

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I know you're partisan, that's for sure!

weepej, the vast majority of powered road users, motor bikes, cars, van LGVs, what ever are law abiding citizens. They have insurance, they stop at red lights etc, there is a small percentage of idiots and I don't excuse those, there is a lager percentage that are not that interested in driving and just go through the motions, it would be nice to try and engauge with these people (I don't like cleaning and tidying my house, my sister loves doing it, engauge with me or shout at me?).

Most people realise that the vehicle that they are using has advantages and limitations, my scooter and sythe through traffic like a hot knife through butter, but on the downside, if I miss judge a gap or another road user, it is me that is going to come off worse. A driver of a large heavy vehicle knows that he/she needs more room and is less likely to be personally injured in small to medium bumps, but could do serious damage to anything that they so much as brush.

But cyclists, who are by far the most vunerable road users, seem to be oblivious to rules that put themselves at risk, such as no lights/hi viz, jumping red lights and also seem not to care when they put people at risk who are more vunerable still, ie pedestrians. If they get hurt by a vehicle, the default reaction is to blame the third party, if they hurt a pedestrian, they say the pedestrian should have jumped out of the way.

The whole cycling fraterity needs to take a good look at itself before it starts judging others and weed out the idiots and disasociate(sp) from them.

you seem to have missed a vital word from this paragraph...
allow me

No. A very large proportion of powered road users habitually break the law. Every motorist occasionally breaks the law. You only need to drive at 70mph on a motorway and count the number of cars that overtake you; observe the comments on this board about people travelling at 70mph in the middle lane who are considered to be obstructing the traffic. You only need to walk around the small town in which I live and count the number of cars that are double parked, parked on the pavement, parked on double yellow lines, parked on blind bends. You only need to drive in bad visibility and observe the number of unlit cars. You only need to count the number of times you are tailgated, cut-up, deliberately blocked at a box junction

Cyclists as a group are just as law-abiding as motorists. They just break different laws

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

If cyclists were subject to speed limits that could very easily and safely be exceeded (say a max of 15 mph on all roads) I wonder how many of them would break them.

Given that cyclists are currently not subject to speed limits, to compare the lawlessness of cyclists and motorists is comparing chalk and cheese.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I seem to recall absoulte outrage on the part of our lycra clad /helmeted/dedicated followers of cycling fashions when London police decided to enforce the 20 mph limit in Richmond Park for cyclists as well as drivers...


Then there exists prosecution of cyclists who break the 20 mph (think?. Alice is sure she read 10 mph when visiting an old school chum who lives in nearby ) Boscombe)

Anyway Bournemouth area were enforcing a speed limit for cyclsits along the promenade in High Season.

So // there are odd cases - but they are charged with "furious cycling".. "reckless or careless cycling" .. similar to the one Eddie Dan O'Brains was charged with when he "allegedly held up traffic when he wished to turn right at the roundabout and got into lane "early""

We also have "anti-social behaviour" and various other "public order" charges if some cyclists take the or push our discretion too far.. Motorists who "fail the attitude test" as dubbed by the public may find themselves on the wrong side of the "acid lecture.. the one which leads to a NIP"


But the laws for cyclists .. as regards lights and traffic lights etc .. are the same as for motorists. Penalties are different and perhaps if cyclists wish to be "part of the traffic" - then breaking these very basic laws should carry at least the same fine in money terms. Drivers face a bit more with penalty points on licences and given the extremes some take to preserve licence cleanliness - a clean licence must be personal pride ..


But yes.. given decent roadies these days - quite possible to achieve a decent steady speed with little effort.. and exceed certain "20 plenty" limits by some margin quite easily :roll;

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

A "rebel" with a big heart and care for others all the same ..

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Most of them I would think: some from malice: some because they don't have speedometers (which are not a legal requirement on bicycles).

But that doesn't turn powered road users into the law abiding citizens that adam thinks they are

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

True .. but they still fined cyclists in Bournemouth and in Richmond Park for breaking the 20 mph limits



But we can judge speed with or without a speedometer in all reality within some margin..

However, cameras are a bit absolute and that's part of the problem with them when we speak of "dispensing with a speedo" when any #one on wheels feels the speed to be safe and more or less "legal" .. but an undiscerned crept up 1 mph can land into some bother . whereas a real police officer would us "discretion" on such.

The problem then is that the public know this .. and it may be another reason why we read of bizarre behaviour in the press

Now gotta go as "choir"

I will chat more later when I gets a second here

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Eh?

When I cycle I have lights front and read, wear hi viz, I do not jump red lights or ride on the pavement (where I'm not allowed to) and take all care to avoid hitting pedestrians, even if they step right out in front of me (one did once, I glanced them, I blame myself for not being more careful), and I have third party insurance.

Somebody (i.e. adam.l) needs to stop generalising so much.

Weepy ./. have to leave to get to choir ..

But see post here.

Mate .. you are one of us.. nice.. caring .. decent.


Unfortunately, too many will not wear hi-viz .. use lights and even argue about being like "Christmas trees"

So what. They are SEEN!

Too many cyclists never bother with any insurance.. They should.

If cycling becomes the main mode of transport . taking over from the car..

Cyclists really are naive if they think they will not be subject to rules. By the way . how much do you really know anout Dutch and Danish Law .. because the law does have requirements of their huge numbers of cyclists. It will come here.. EU stuff usually does ..eventually

But do google. You will find what I am on about


Have not time now as got "choir"

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Yes but that was under a local by law. They could fine joggers under the same requlation

_________________
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Well, I don't believe in breaking speed limits...

We believe in a safe speed for all conditions.


Oddly enough .. we tend to be below the speed limit most of the time


But .. all the same .. my wife had to accelerate out of danger once when some retard whom she overtook accelerated on her as she drew level.

Fortunately this was not in speed cam zone.. and I happened to be behind her having met up en route in the south on our respective homeward journeys.

We met the numpty from hell .. who was a fool and also illegally speeding as he happened to be towing at the time

We each simply hit 80 mph for second and eased off to legal with a two and a bit second courtesy margin when entering L1 on passing this rather complacent retard posing as a "motorist"

So sometimes .. one has to judge danger and sometimes accelerate to diffuse a danger.

Oh .. and given Wildy expects twins.. her life means far more to me than anything and if I have to rush her to hospital to save her life and those she carries within her .. I WILL

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.