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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 13:13 
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Robert Garbutt in CW wrote:

It's bad enough that we have to put up with being cut up by cars. but when the driver is a CYCLIST - then that really does make my blood boil.

I had an incident wuth a car on Sunday morning. Nothing unusual in that, excpet that the vehicle was fitted with a proper bike carryng rack. That by my reckoning means the driver was a cyclist, or at the very least the wife/husband of a bike rider.. someone who should be sympathetic to someone in Lycra

They should definitely know better than to overtake too close. To then turn immediately left in front of me - inches from my wheel - is inexcusable. I braked .. waved .. SWORE :censored: .. all the usual stuff.. but what really upset me was that the driver was probably a cyclist.

Ironically it had been a particularly friendly morning regarding other bike riders. Fat and skinny tyres. Assos and baggy everyone had time to greet this old chap as he meandered along the lanes

The logic is that the more there are who ride bikes - the more sympathetic other road users will be to the cause. Everyone will know a cyclist or be one - which will make the roads safer for cyclists



I would have used "should make the roads safer for cyclists" as nothing's guaranteed as he found out with Mr Numpty in his anecdote. :popcorn:

Thus it does not follow that is you ride a bike or drive a car - you are going to be a better road user of any type. Depends on mood and and folk are fallible. :popcorn:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 16:13 
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So, referring to other threads on here, you would not agree that being a driver makes you a better pedestrian, then?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 16:25 
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He automatically would expect a cyclist to be a more considerate motorist? Thats a simplistic, flawed and maybe quite arrogant assumption, the reality is similar in context to weepej's post in the red light thread:

weepej wrote:
I'm always amazed that when I'm out walking with somebody they might moan at people in cars that don't show due respect to pedestrians in their view, but when I'm in a car with them they might moan at pedestrians who don't show due repect for cars in their view.

I've been in a car with somebody who's shouted at another motorist for doing something that they only did five minutes ago, completely oblivious to their own failings.

Some people (and it is only some) literally become motor centric when they're in their car, and pedestrian centric when they're walking, it's like they switch sides.



I mean we all do it- I got irritated the other month by a van which zoomed past as I was reversing my van out of a parking space in a supermarket car park- You'd expect a transit driver to be more aware of my blind spots than your regular mumsy in a hatchback- but of course, never discount the d :censored: kheads.

:bunker:

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Last edited by hairyben on Sun Jun 07, 2009 18:39, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 17:37 
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The guy has just realised he's in the "real world". I bet the guy with the cycle rack on the back has no more real respect for other motorists than he does for cyclists, since when have ALL drivers/cyclists/peds had total respect for their fellows......

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 18:56 
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malcolmw wrote:
So, referring to other threads on here, you would not agree that being a driver makes you a better pedestrian, then?



No - because if you are an arrogant to55er on foot - you will not turn into an :angel: once astride a bike or :steering: a car.

The problem with Rob Garbutt's argument (CTC argument inclined) which draws on the idea that cycling has to be part of the driving test. (If we go that route - then we would have to include simulated driving/trucking in Bikeability and L-test alike so that we all have some insight/appreciation of the other road user's particular problems from that perspective :popcorn: But an insight will not necessarily make all road users into this "idea road user" Fallible.. road users. Hell - my own training notes and RoadCraft tell me there are internal and external pressures which can "undermine attitude" and cause us to make mistakes if and ONLY IF we fail to recognise these and make a conscious effort to counter them. Experience does not maketh the safest driver. ATTITUDE does! A healthy objective, considerate and calm attitude also makes a person into a safe road user on foot and on bike.

When we are talking about road safety - we really do need to take all human failings into account and try to work out how we can influence/educate towards the better. I know from the general levels of petty crimes up to career criminal organised crimes that when we come to what Ted and Vrenchen (and his and her collective direct blood-line families) as practising Catholics call the " genetic mark of Cain" - we're on a bit of a loser here as what's been bred in . ain't so easy to breed or "exorcise" out. (Vrenchen in phone call to me) :popcorn:

It does not follow that we ALL automatically become more aware of the needs of others if we have experience of their preferred transport. We're all pedestrians anyway so how we choose to travel. All truck drivers learned to drive a motor car before a lorry/coach/bus... but they still can forget the needs of the more vulnerable in a small car/bike/horserider/ped in an EPHEMERALLY careless moment.

I am not criticising anyone negatively. It would be unrealistic not to point out the flaws given we are all so different.


YES .. like ALL on this messageboard .. each and every one of you :bow: - I know we all think.. consider each other and are each highly skilled as road users :bow: and yet .. we still recognise our own short-comings on odd occasions.. I know we can think ALL others out there are likewise. Sad reality? You have no idea what our RPU teams come across. There are some seriously defunct dudes out there and it would be naive to think we can educate some types. We see them appear in court .. in/out prison on a regular basis. Oh .. I'd like to try .. but even the kind-minded - optimist positive hopeful soul within me accepts that 5% are just "unreachable".

I have to say that all posting to this messageboard are decent law abiders who sincerely care bout road safety I include weepy/dcb and Abercrombie who care and post comments from their own takes - which I respect and will only counter them to offer another insight for them to consider..as I do to all others :popcorn: I and my colleagues up and down the country deal with a minority who don't. We do our job here by removing them as best we can. I do not have a problem with that. :popcorn:




(because I KNOW we all want the same thing - safe roads.. fair enforcement .. real justice reflecting the actual offence fair-mindedly )

Perhaps I should put this on :soapbox: rant. (I'm also brought up Catholic - but practise this faith on familyXmas/Easter occasions). \It's not a driving issue but related to it in passing

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Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

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Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 20:02 
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hairyben wrote:
He automatically would expect a cyclist to be a more considerate motorist? Thats a simplistic, flawed and maybe quite arrogant assumption, the reality is similar in context to weepej's post in the red light thread:

weepej wrote:
I'm always amazed that when I'm out walking with somebody they might moan at people in cars that don't show due respect to pedestrians in their view, but when I'm in a car with them they might moan at pedestrians who don't show due repect for cars in their view.

I've been in a car with somebody who's shouted at another motorist for doing something that they only did five minutes ago, completely oblivious to their own failings.

Some people (and it is only some) literally become motor centric when they're in their car, and pedestrian centric when they're walking, it's like they switch sides.



I mean we all do it- I got irritated the other month by a van which zoomed past as I was reversing my van out of a parking space in a supermarket car park- You'd expect a transit driver to be more aware of my blind spots than your regular mumsy in a hatchback- but of course, never discount the d :censored: kheads.

:bunker:


Ifever you need CCTV . the dreaded supermarket carpark :popcorn:

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 19:37 
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In Gear wrote:
Ifever you need CCTV . the dreaded supermarket carpark :popcorn:

Because the spy cameras inside the shop - one per aisle and one per checkout - are not enough. :roll:
We must all be treated like criminals all of the time!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 21:11 
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Many road users ar scitsofrenic. They have two personallities in and out of thier car. For instance school mums wanging down the lanes to get thier darlings from school to an after school club but complaning about someone driving past thier school or road.Locals complaning about traffic speed then caught by thier community speed watch. Why should cyclists be any different?

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 17:16 
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anton wrote:
Why should cyclists be any different?

Because cyclists are eco-friendly and bio-degradable, and are therefore a better class of people.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 19:19 
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Thing is, there's cyclists and Cyclists, like there are people who have cars and people who think of themselves as drivers.

Some numpty in a Zafira with a bike rack on the back is just as likely to think like a 'proper cyclist' as he is to understand the COAST principle.

This editorial just reinforces the opinion some hold that 'proper cyclists' think that riding a bike makes you a saint and driving a car gives you a sin to atone for.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 22:55 
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Understanding psychology, appropriate education approaches, suitable for all 'types of people', and rejoining the lost community spirit will help to re-align society, and help to remind that courtesy and understanding on the roads is of extreme importance.

I thought Catholics like most religions believed in forgiveness and that all can be saved ?

I think that it is only, the cost and time that it would take, to actually help all road users into becoming a reasonable OK driver and member of society. So many programs on TV (etc) show how all things (seem) possible if the right approach and time is provided to each person.
Car thieves have been given the ability to make their own cars and then they start to understand how the pride, respect and responsibility can be felt as they take responsibility for something they have done and show that they can do.
Are many of our current problems stemmed from a society that has forgotten how to care?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 20:26 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Understanding psychology, appropriate education approaches, suitable for all 'types of people', and rejoining the lost community spirit will help to re-align society, and help to remind that courtesy and understanding on the roads is of extreme importance.



I keep hoping we kindle courtesy etc by a constant nagging of C O A (A) S T :wink: Yep - I know plenty of those posting to various enthusiast road user fora (both motoring and cyclhng :wink:) are pretty much "au fait/at ease/second nature/engage COAST on "human motor instinct" (another Wildy remark in private person-person chat - but the woman comes out with a phrase which cuts to the chase in her own odd to eccentric way :lol: I think she goes too intensely obtuse at times though :lol:)

safespeedv2 wrote:
I thought Catholics like most religions believed in forgiveness and that all can be saved ?



Errr.. this family's Catholic. Given the fact we've all "gone forth and been fruitful in each member's little families" :lol: But read you history Claire :yikes: I somehow think the way Catholics murdered Protestants/Anglicans in the past - plus the Vatican's role in WW2 and attitude towards contraception (especially in Catholic African provinces) hardly makes it an "gentle minded religion" - but this is the same extremity of all blinkered zealots to a faith or even a cause. :popcorn:

With cycling and green issues - I think there is a sort of "crusade of the devout to Green" at times. :popcorn: :bunker: Hey - I do not waste one penny nor one morsel of food in this household. Whatever me and my wife (Alice) purchase for our home/own personal uses - we use until it "dies of exhaustion/worn out"! We support the WOW factor . War On Waste :lol:

But whilst we ride our bicycles and use our cars thoughtfully/have what we hope to be a very considerate and gentle personal lifestyle - we do not think anyone to be a complete and utter saint. Cars have a cost to the plante. Bicycles and manufacture/delivery to shops/gadgets/clothing/cycling fads and fashions also have "CARBON IMPACT of a similar level to a car on aggregate when you weigh it all up" and this is one thing which really "gets up my nostrils in a supremely acrid whiffy stink of hypocrisy on the part of the "spindrift sock puppet types" :bunker:

By all means - wax lyrical about the health aspects/fun/enjoyment/exhilaration after the exercise and sense of personal feel good achievement - but do not deceive anyone on "greener than theee!" matters because it just don't work out that way :popcorn:

It convinces no one really :popcorn: Want more to take up cycling? Play to what they will experience and get personal pleasure in. :wink: Folk will switch off to a "green pressure" - given "green tax/wheely bin fines and a shed load of other stuff". It's just a thought to our lurkers - and I think they are now seeing us as more friend than enemy to be fair from information fed to me :popcorn: and personal messages from registered posters who do not post much to safespeed but pm ME!!!. :wink: :bighand:

Quote:
I think that it is only, the cost and time that it would take, to actually help all road users into becoming a reasonable OK driver and member of society. So many programs on TV (etc) show how all things (seem) possible if the right approach and time is provided to each person.
Car thieves have been given the ability to make their own cars and then they start to understand how the pride, respect and responsibility can be felt as they take responsibility for something they have done and show that they can do.
Are many of our current problems stemmed from a society that has forgotten how to care?



Yes CLAIRE .. we have "progressed as a species to little s:censored:t - selfish. . arrogant.... think everyone else owes them a living . feels "rejected if someone happens to disagree with them" - :roll: .. when there is no need. No one felt/feels such in my "baby boom generations" which I think includes the 45-=60 year olds of 2009 - the ones who "set the scene in the 60s/early 70s." as regards PROTEST :lol: against the "ESTABLISHMENT". Our generation set the style and still set the style. :lol: Our generation grew up with a genteel ethic and expanded the boundaries of that gentility. Its true "protesting 60-70s hippies" still remain considerate to others all the same. The "politically correct zombies" on the other hand .. would appear to undermine that laudable ethic of my generation' and ten year ahead of me generation's peers". I'd like to remind folk that the law is not "Stepford" nor the "Body snatchers'" conspiracy film of the 50s! :wink: - but a principle which adapts to an ever changing society and its fair common sensed based needs, :popcorn: SOME try to change the law adversely. It's up to Joe Public at large to shout out his protest song.. and vote to his conscience and trust in his chosen candidate at any election :wink:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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