Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Tue Feb 25, 2020 00:07

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 13:37 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 23:28
Posts: 1940
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/459 ... uestioned/


Not sure I get the question asked .. but anyway.. what do all here do.. und what ist weepy's take on this one.. from his London experiences?

Bolton News wrote:
VOTE: Safety of cycle lanes questioned
8:36am Friday 11th September 2009



THEY are meant to be a refuge for cyclists on Britain’s roads.

But specially created cycle lanes are anything but, according to a new study by the University of Bolton.

Researchers teamed up with colleagues at the University of Leeds, to carry out a study comissioned by national cyclists’ organisation the Cyclists’ Touring Club (CTC).

And they have established that motorists give cylists less room if they are in a cycle lane.

Dr John Parkin, reader in transport engineering and planning at the University of Bolton, said: “In the presence of a cycle lane, a driver is likely to drive between the cycle lane line and the centre line in a position which is appropriate for the visible highway ahead of the driver.

“A cyclist within a cycle lane does not seem to cause a driver to adopt a different position in his or her lane. This has important implications for the width of cycle lanes and implies that their width should never be compromised.”

Researchers attached a video camera onto the back of a cycle and travelled down three roads which each had sections where cycle lanes were provided and stretches without the markings.

On one road, the A6 at Garstang in Lancashire, motorists travelled seven inches closer to the cyclist when the cycle lane was in operation.

The minimum width of a cycle lane, according to Department for Transport guidelines, is 5ft, but researchers found that those they travelled on were narrower than that.


Your Vote
Do you give cyclists a wider berth if they are not in cycle lanes?

Yes:
82%

No:
18%



The study, which is being published in the Accident Analysis and Prevention scientific journal next month, concludes that reducing traffic speed and volume would provide cyclists with a safer environment in which to travel.

Chris Peck, the CTC’s policy co-ordinator, said: “Cycle lanes have a part to play in improving road conditions for cyclists, but this research has raised concerns that they are not always the best solution and may lead to a deterioration in comfort for some cyclists.”

andrew.greaves@ theboltonnews.co.uk



Actually in Garstang .. ist not a wide lane .. nor ist the carriageway really wide enough. It would be safer not to have one as I think it ist like the Ambleside one.. as in "confusing" :roll:

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 14:16 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
There is an important confounding factor to consider:

Could the position of the cyclist be different when in a cycle lane? (this was not mentioned within the article)
Where there is no cycle lane, cyclists would be more inclined to be as far left as possible. If there is a cycle lane, cyclists may be tempted to remain in the centre of the cycle lane, hence not being so far left as they otherwise would have been. Some may believe it to be equally appropriate to be in the right hand half of the cycle lane (an issue of entitlement). Those using their wheels as the reference point may not realise their handblebars have gone beyond the dividing line.

Of course it may be that drivers tried to ensure they gave adequate room and possibly overshot in the absence if a clear boundary, and where a boundary has been clearly defined, these drivers may not feel the need to move right at all if they are already within their lane (entitlement).

There is a much more important issue. We need to determine if all drivers are giving adequate room, not simply just the average level which might already be adequate. It's no good simply taking an average - that's far too simplistic! We need to know what the (close) tail of the distribution is like because this is the danger zone.


Perhaps someone knows this study well enough to say if the issues I state have been accounted for.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 14:59 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
Steve wrote:
Could the position of the cyclist be different when in a cycle lane? (this was not mentioned within the article)
Where there is no cycle lane, cyclists would be more inclined to be as far left as possible. If there is a cycle lane, cyclists may be tempted to remain in the centre of the cycle lane, hence not being so far left as they otherwise would have been. Some may believe it to be equally appropriate to be in the right hand half of the cycle lane (an issue of entitlement). Those using their wheels as the reference point may not realise their handblebars have gone beyond the dividing line.


Can't speak for every person who cycles but this is certainly not the case for me.

When there is no cycle lane I'm more likely to ride wide of the kerb to give myself somewhere to go when I sense someone is cutting it a bit fine. Where there is a cycle lane I'm generally as far left as the general build up of rubbish will allow.

It is my personal experience that there is a tendency for vehicles to pass close to the line when the line is there.

If councils would stick to the 5ft rule, and where there is insufficient room, not have a cycle lane then I think it would be an improvement (though do we really need a cycle lane if there is 5ft of spare road space?
Where there is a marked cycle lane then the message given is that there is room for both cycle and motor vehicle, the result is obviously going to be some badly judged passing. On narrow sections without the lane it may result in drivers thinking more about where to pass and just maybe more would get it right.

I don't suppose they studied which types of vehicles tended to pass the closest did they? I've yet to do any scientific study but buses and small cars (supermini size) seem to be the biggest culprits.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 19:13 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
Homer wrote:
Steve wrote:
Could the position of the cyclist be different when in a cycle lane? (this was not mentioned within the article)
Where there is no cycle lane, cyclists would be more inclined to be as far left as possible. If there is a cycle lane, cyclists may be tempted to remain in the centre of the cycle lane, hence not being so far left as they otherwise would have been. Some may believe it to be equally appropriate to be in the right hand half of the cycle lane (an issue of entitlement). Those using their wheels as the reference point may not realise their handblebars have gone beyond the dividing line.


Can't speak for every person who cycles but this is certainly not the case for me.

When there is no cycle lane I'm more likely to ride wide of the kerb to give myself somewhere to go when I sense someone is cutting it a bit fine. Where there is a cycle lane I'm generally as far left as the general build up of rubbish will allow


:yesyes: Primary is always safer and you would normally be at a decent-ish speed within the flow of traffic too.

The rubbish /debris is an issue .. I do so agree. I will give Darlington its due though as a "beacon city for cycliing" as it does use road sweepers each week :bow:


Homer wrote:
It is my personal experience that there is a tendency for vehicles to pass close to the line when the line is there.

If councils would stick to the 5ft rule, and where there is insufficient room, not have a cycle lane then I think it would be an improvement (though do we really need a cycle lane if there is 5ft of spare road space?



I think this is an issue of "target boxes to tick in many a case" :roll: I think some areas like Exeter have the right idea when they re-engineered to make wider shared ped/cycle paths per the model we've enjoyed when holidaying in the past on the "North German Plain" in the flatlands of Osnabruck Northwards and eastawards towards the Harz rolling hillocks and mountains. I thought Bremen to Cuxhaven was just pure :cloud9: as far as riding facilities are concerned.. but because it's flat.. it actually takes more out of me on a workout than the climbs and downs do.. as I find my cadence has to be more sustained to keep up the pace on the flats. I found it more challenging than the recent 195 miler we just did around the Vorarlberg with "Team Swiss "Uebermensch" :lol: (They ain't normal.. Jay-zuss! I just baout managed to keep up./. poor old Ted got trounced and we had to wait for him to roll up at our our watering holes by 40 minutes at one point :rotfl:)

Errr sorry .. I'm still on a "bit of a high from the ride in gorgeous scenic bliss" I will write up my "blog" to share with you all later.

Back to topic. I am saying that shared ped/cycle lanes can work very weil. I concede that sometimes in urban areas we may need to have the cycle lane sharing the space with cars.. and somehow I think that sharing with a bus is a right :nono:.. especially if the area uses those stupid bendy :yikes: ones. I would rather see cyclists and car drivers sharing the available road space in harmony.. negotiating with each other in mutual respect... but to achieve this? Well I keep shouting COAST to everyone as this helps for now. I would rather see a comprehensive road safety programme which starts at age 7 to twilight of our time as pensioner stewards of our world. One which allows for our ever-changing needs and our constant innovations to improve our lot in life.

Homer wrote:
Where there is a marked cycle lane then the message given is that there is room for both cycle and motor vehicle, the result is obviously going to be some badly judged passing. On narrow sections without the lane it may result in drivers thinking more about where to pass and just maybe more would get it right.



I think too many fail to realise the pinch points.. . :roll: Inevitably there will be some and I am minded about a skit with the late Ian Carmichael and the late Peter Sellers in a film where neither would reverse to give the other passage past a rural "natural" pinch point. :lol: I think ti was resolved by the other "held ups" pushing the cars in dsipute into a field :rotfl: - and showing how negotiation helps things move along pleasantly :lol:

I think this was 1950 Black White film and I cannot recall the title. It was not "I'm All right Jack" which was the other timeless classic starring this pair :bow: I am hoping someone can . . It was just superb! :lol:

But I ma trying to say .. we've always had this problem of squablles over pinch points ...
and we've never really resolved it :popcorn:


I think we should try to do so via this board guys! So think. I can think of various . but think all of us should .. and exchange ideas so as to help present a fair minded lobby which helps all road users.

That's what road safety's really about :wink: and the public input should carry just as much value as that of engineers and law makers. I am no arrogant police officer. I listen. Point out the law from my side of the fence.. and we take it from there. Those who feel they are above the Members of the Public are arrogant affronts. The public outnumber us and the majority "middle class of UK Ltd" are professionals in their own fields of expertise .. and their concerns certainly matter or should matter to that minority enforcing the laws with their general tacit consent and good will. I am sorry if those too full of their own importance think me "odd". I happen to represent the real police officer who wants to do his or her best.

Homer wrote:
I don't suppose they studied which types of vehicles tended to pass the closest did they? I've yet to do any scientific study but buses and small cars (supermini size) seem to be the biggest culprits.



Ah.. the BMW mini. the Micra. the Corsa.. The Ka.. :roll: a sterotype perhaps? :popcorn:

Buses are a bit different . I think they are way too close because their ruddy size makes me feel so ruddy small! Again some of the problem may be because of the confusing signals sent out b the cycle lane and centre lane markings? :? I am trying to expplore each angle here for debate purposes .. :popcorn:

Most of the real issues are resolved by thought ful COAST .. Others need a bit more thought. :popcorn: Hey I do not say COAST solves all ./. but it helps a lot!

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 4 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.568s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]