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PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 22:33 
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:gatso2: It seems that the authorities on the IOM want to do something about undisciplined cyclists.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Call-for ... 6132083.jp

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 00:51 
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CJG wrote:
:gatso2: It seems that the authorities on the IOM want to do something about undisciplined cyclists.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Call-for ... 6132083.jp


Nice little earner - and good PR - cameroon - are you listening .

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 09:28 
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and perhaps somewhat easier to implement & enforce on a small island !


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 09:45 
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'They ride four in a row, they will not drop behind, a motorist gets annoyed and overtakes in a bad spot, they have an accident and the cyclists race on,' he added."

Hang on a minute! How often has that ever happened?

Sounds like someone is trying to make or bolster an argument based on a one-off event to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 09:55 
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Big Tone wrote:
'They ride four in a row, they will not drop behind, a motorist gets annoyed and overtakes in a bad spot, they have an accident and the cyclists race on,' he added."

Hang on a minute! How often has that ever happened?

Sounds like someone is trying to make or bolster an argument based on a one-off event to me.


aside from the driver still being at fault for overtaking in a 'bad spot' (i.e. carelessly)
if these bikes already riding illegally 4 abreast had some form of ID plate.... how would they record these IDs at the time of the accident ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:24 
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ed_m wrote:
aside from the driver still being at fault for overtaking in a 'bad spot' (i.e. carelessly)
Yes :yesyes: Even if there are so many cyclists in a group that they’re taking up the space of a HGV, you do not drive around them like an idiot! You treat it like you would a HGV and overtake when safe. If it isn’t safe both for yourself and the cyclists you don’t overtake.

ed_m wrote:
if these bikes already riding illegally 4 abreast had some form of ID plate.... how would they record these IDs at the time of the accident ?
I hope they’re not thinking of a registration plate, like those on cars or motorbikes but maybe smaller..

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 13:43 
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I am adding in the article here
MEL WRIGHT South News reporter wrote:
Call for bicycles to be licensed
Published Date: 08 March 2010 By MEL WRIGHT South News reporter

ALL bicycles ridden by those over 16 should be licenced, Castletown Commissioners believe.
The local authority considered a letter from the Department of Transport regarding a series of draft pedal cycle regulations that will be submitted to Tynwald for approval.
They include the requirement that brakes must be in a good and efficient order, have suitable bells and safe tyres.

Commissioner Kevin Weir proposed at last week's board meeting that the department should go further with the requirements it wants to impose.
'They should make it statutory to wear safety helmets, fluorescent jackets, have lights front and back and have a road licence for riders over 16 years of age,' he said.
'They ride four in a row, they will not drop behind, a motorist gets annoyed and overtakes in a bad spot, they have an accident and the cyclists race on,' he added.
'Any professional driver would support this sort of action. I have a bike and at least I have road sense. I do not ride two, three or four abreast.
'They should have to have a licence. If I have a road licence to drive my car, why shouldn't they? It should be £10 a go.'
Commissioner Richard Ronan said: 'It will cost £30 to administer, but it is still worthwhile.'

Mr Ronan added: 'It's the bike that has the licence, it might lead to a little bit more care, it's the same as a dog licence, why have dog licences?'
Commissioner Andrew Thomas agreed with Mr Weir's suggestions, but thought the licence idea was impractical.

In defence of cyclists, commissioners' chairman Alwyn Collister said: 'Cyclists have brought a good deal of publicity to the Isle of Man, we have some very good cyclists. The Isle of Man is known throughout the cycling world.'
Mr Weir's proposals received support from the majority of the board and will be outlined in the board's reply to the DoT.

On one hand what they speak of is an MOT for bikes and on the other good rider behaviours.
Most cyclists want their bike in good order, as they recognise how vulnerable they are. I do appreciate that no all cyclists are responsible, but better Policing will in time have them stopped and checked.
Again just having most (let's face it will they truly have all bikes / people registered?) registered will not stop a cyclist behaving irresponsibly.

I am concerned about the groups that travel as a whole block or two abreast on major roads. It is far safer and more helpful for traffic to pass if they travel in singles and further apart, to enable traffic to pass safely and efficiently. Smaller quiet roads are fine to ride side by side and have a chat etc, but on the less narrow major routes, it is even more dangerous for them, and demands more from each road user to pass safely. The lead road vehicle can feel under great pressure the more cars that build up behind them.
Encouraging riders therefor to act responsibly to the traffic around them, so that, when it is busy they apply better more helpful procedures and when quiet consider a side by side, ride.
No amount of registration will help to improve better traffic responses from the cyclists, all you might (if a clear and reliable note of who was riding is taken at the time), achieve is a conviction later, not that this isn't important, but surely if you are involved in an accident you must stop anyway? if not why not? If the responsible or even just involved cyclists, is 'failing to stop' why ?
So if riders are not stopping, then is this not the issue to address rather than a mass of administration that probably won't help anyway.
If a registration 'plate' has to be added, many race cyclists are trying to save every ounce of weight anyway, so they probably wont agree to a 'plate' of any kind, even one made of light plastic.
We need to find the right psychological motivations, and rule of law, to ensure people want to, and 'do', the right behaviours, not ignore all requests by government and the rules of the land. Carrots work better than sticks, and getting the General public 'on side' and working together, in the right way becomes long lasting, well respected and supported by the majority.
I am sure that talking with many of the cycling Groups and Clubs, will do far more good than over complicated administration and stick beating.
It could be too, that once again having more Police Patrols will soon pick up on the 'regular' disobedient cyclists, that flaunt the law with impunity.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 22:41 
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Have you ever driven in the Isle of Man, Claire?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 09:11 
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CJG wrote:
:gatso2: It seems that the authorities on the IOM want to do something about undisciplined cyclists.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Call-for ... 6132083.jp


Cos yeah, licensing cars and motorcycles means there are no undisciplined car drivers!

Silly idea, expensive and pointless.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 09:12 
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Case in point on the very story itself:

Quote:
'They ride four in a row, they will not drop behind, a motorist gets annoyed and overtakes in a bad spot, they have an accident and the cyclists race on,' he added.


Now who's fault is that?!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:03 
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weepej wrote:
Case in point on the very story itself:

Quote:
'They ride four in a row, they will not drop behind, a motorist gets annoyed and overtakes in a bad spot, they have an accident and the cyclists race on,' he added.


Now who's fault is that?!
The car driver's, pretty much

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:44 
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weepej wrote:
Cos yeah, licensing cars and motorcycles means there are no undisciplined car drivers!

Silly idea, expensive and pointless.

I can't believe you repeated your earlier flawed logic; did you hope it wouldn't be noticed?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 21:46 
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HMM-get a trouble spot -in comes a camera . Town centres -CCTV comes in to spot problems .Argument against protest "Anyone innocent has nothing to fear " .Traffic cameras - motorists don't object . Then someone mentions giving cycles ID numbers -and all hell breaks loose . Now ,what have cyclists (well those "with nothing to fear ") got to worry about -oh,yes there is -the fact that probably a lot of folks won't bother with ID plates - because with the dwindling number of cops ,there's little chance of getting caught .

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 09:42 
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ed_m wrote:
...if these bikes already riding illegally 4 abreast ...


The complaint was that they were riding four in a row not four abreast. And do you know enough about Manx law to know that four abreast is illegal there?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 09:50 
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In my experience a large group of cyclists are safer if they stay in a compact group. This forces overtaking vehicles to treat them as they would a single large slow moving vehicle. One the group begin to string out the behavior of the individual cyclists is less predictable and some of the overtaking motorists will inevitable cut into inadequate gaps and tailgate the cyclists. And, as a motorist, I would prefer to make a single overtaking maneuver of a disciplined group than many such maneuvers round single erratic cyclists

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:50 
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botach wrote:
HMM-get a trouble spot -in comes a camera . Town centres -CCTV comes in to spot problems .Argument against protest "Anyone innocent has nothing to fear " .Traffic cameras - motorists don't object . Then someone mentions giving cycles ID numbers -and all hell breaks loose . Now ,what have cyclists (well those "with nothing to fear ") got to worry about -oh,yes there is -the fact that probably a lot of folks won't bother with ID plates - because with the dwindling number of cops ,there's little chance of getting caught .


If I had to put an id plate on my cycle tomorrow I wouldn't have an issue with that bit. It's just that amount of money it would cost in general for something that's pretty pointless.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 20:32 
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weepej wrote:

If I had to put an id plate on my cycle tomorrow I wouldn't have an issue with that bit. It's just that amount of money it would cost in general for something that's pretty pointless.


Seems pretty pointless to say that driving under the speed on a lollipop is safe -seem to remember carnage at the M5 end of the M42 some years ago in fog ,because a lot of people thought this too .As for tagging cyclists -would mean that the on road/on pavement etc lot might get identified by the public and give the police away of getting homicidal maniacs off the pavement .Not so long ago that mrs B was nearly mown down by one in a pedestrian area .When I see a cyclist behaving responsibly I treat them accordingly -but on the whole -they're mobile yobs -so tagging them would also give the decent ones a chance to name & shame -and help to restore the name of the decent ones -might even make the "fast" guys think twice about going through red lights ,or when faced with one ,taking to the pavement to go round them .

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 22:54 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
Have you ever driven in the Isle of Man, Claire?
No sad;y never been but I would like to go.
I assume that you have been ?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 23:05 
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botach wrote:
weepej wrote:
If I had to put an id plate on my cycle tomorrow I wouldn't have an issue with that bit. It's just that amount of money it would cost in general for something that's pretty pointless.
...As for tagging cyclists -would mean that the on road/on pavement etc lot might get identified by the public and give the police away of getting homicidal maniacs off the pavement ....
-but on the whole -they're mobile yobs -so tagging them would also give the decent ones a chance to name & shame -and help to restore the name of the decent ones -might even make the "fast" guys think twice about going through red lights ,or when faced with one ,taking to the pavement to go round them .
I cannot agree really - placing a plate does not make a cyclist or anyone want to behave better, a small few maybe and maybe some won't 'chance' it.
But should the rules be changed when appropriate, and should we not be looking to improve rider behaviours, through psychology to create an inner desire to 'do the right thing' than ignore the rules of the road deliberately. By failing to address the real issues you ignore the original motivations so no 'stick waving' is going to alter the behaviour - it will just get worse only now you have to justify all the admin and overhead costs too.
Why not ask - why do you ride on this pavement, but not that one ? What rules might work for you and why? What would you respect ? When ought that rule be enforced ?

Most people can see that sometimes even responsible people, might choose to ride on a pavement illegally, but this maybe safer for the entire road environment (at that time), by doing so, and no pedestrian is in any danger or even any inconvenience, often because there are none!
Local Authorities and Government ought to look to see what the citizens do and tune rules and regs to the acceptable majority of decent behaviours.
Enforcement should only be for those that far exceed these thresholds.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 08:33 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
Have you ever driven in the Isle of Man, Claire?
No sad;y never been but I would like to go.
I assume that you have been ?


Yes. My in-laws live their and we visit a lot, less so since ma-in-law died.

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