Safe Speed Forums

This evening (after dark), driving into Henley for a work social, I was somewhat appalled to see a 'peloton' of cyclists coming down the hill, at speed, into the residential portion of the town, all lycra'ed up and with ultra-bright front lights, riding on the pavement on the 'wrong' side of the road. There must have been at least 30 of them. As the front of the group entered the streetlit zone, marginally before me, they encountered a woman with her dog, on a narrowing footpath. I slowed, ready to stop and give assistance if they barrelled into her, but fortunately I was past the spot, and observing in my mirrors, as the riders at the front dived off the pavement, across the (thankfully empty) oncoming lane, and onto the left-hand side of the road, where they should have been all along!

Satisfied that the pedestrian had been missed, and not wishing to cause an obstruction to following motorists, let alone the dozens of cyclists, I moved on, though with more than half a mind to stop and attempt to give the lead riders a piece of my mind!

What boggles my mind is that this huge group of riders clearly set off whilst aware of at least the possibility of riding after dark, given the wide proliferation of HID/LED front lights, and so knowingly chose to take to the footpath given prior awareness of the route and light levels.

What the f@%k were they thinking!? Way to alienate all other road users in one fell swoop!

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Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.

[weepej]I see cars being driven on the pavement far more often[/weepej]

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

No, no. You see far more cycles travelling at speed on the pavement than you do cars. You do see a lot of cars parking on the pavement but they only travel a few yards at extremely low speed to do so.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I actually have no real problem with pavement riding IN PRINCIPLE.

The issue is much like "Speeding"

While the Law states things in binary, back in the real world there is a huge diference between pavement cycling at (Say) jogging speed being aware that pedestrians may not be aware of your approach and being ready to act accordingly and somebody barraling along like it was the last 100 yards of the TdF scattering all before them!

I actually think "Careful" pavement cycling should be encouraged and accomodated for. especially if there is a serious intention to persuade car users to switch to bikes for short journeys. (People like me enjoy cycling OFF ROAD, but since I didnt learn to cycle as a youth, only in my 30's I will never feel comfortable cycling on the road. Proper segragated cycle paths would make a big diference in wheher or not people like me (Who I suspect are in the majority, though I have no data to back this up) will ever consider cycles as a serious alternative to driving.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Certainly you're far more at risk of being killed by a car mounting the pavement than a cyclist riding along it.

Or injured because you have to walk in the road to get round a pavement parked car

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Only due to the comparative numbers involved; a lot of a safe something still adds up to a net danger.
On a 'per unit distance' basis, I would say your claim probably wouldn't hold.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

But, with vanishingly few exceptions, those are cars where the driver has lost control and accidentally mounted the pavement, rather than deliberately driven on it.

And of course that was a prize example of tu quoque, aka "the cyclist's fallacy".

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Would it not be sensible to impose a speed limit on cyclists when they pavement cycle? 5mph seems reasonable as much faster can they really guarantee they can stop in the distance they know to be clear when they are so close to driveways and gateways and doors?

This is something I have also mentioned in the recent past.
It is a good idea, but would it have to become mandatory for all bicycles to have speedos fitted? Cue the obvious parallels

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Why should they be limited to a lower same speed than pedestrians? Can joggers, or even brisk walkers, really guarantee that they can stop in the distance that they know to be clear when they are so close to driveways and gateways and doors?

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Not all pavements have driveways and gateways and doors (and I know many which don't even have pedestrians). And perhaps those that do are not suitable places to be cycling?

Are there any stats on how many joggers injure other people while out jogging? What are the stats for pavement riding cyclists? Why are the selfish minority of cyclists not leading to the persecution of cyclists in the same way that the selfish minority of dangerous criminal minority of motorists are leading to the persecution of the majority of motorists?

Pedestrians go on pavements so it makes sense to limit pavement speed to not much than a brisk walk - 5mph. Same as for supermarket carparks and other pedestrian areas.

With gps devices being so readily available it would be easy to fit all cyclists with speed monitors. Most new mobile phones have GPS. I'm sure a cyclist is also quite capable of judging their speed and riding at 5mph anyway... after all us car drivers don't need to keep looking at the speedo to see roughly how fast we're going do we?

There is no research that I am aware of, and so no one claiming a solution whatever that is.
A specific speed, of course will not just 'make it safe' ! One person's perception of danger is not another's. Surely it is also 'too simple' and won't solve the true problems? There is more going on here ...
I don't think anything would be served or solved if all cyclists simply had a speed restriction in the same way that it won't / doesn't succeed for motorists.
Some of the problems are that :
Some Cyclists want to race on the road and have practice 'runs' - they don't want to stop for anything ideally.
Then we have the leisure cyclists and then others who happily mix and ride in traffic and go from place to place ...
So the root cause IMHO is empathy through consideration and courtesy.
Each group want slightly different things from the same or similar space. Each person concept of consideration & courtesy is different too.
What therefore is the solution - how do we define the success of a solution and what might that be ? Can reminders of the rules of the road for all road users help too. Certainly many cyclists seem to have considered that many rules no longer apply to them - why ? Have the rules become obsolete in crowded areas - do they need to be reviewed?
Can simple re-education of consideration & courtesy help ? Would that 'work'/ be enough?
Does a new cycle route for racing cyclists help or just some defined areas for each different cycle group?
Making each rider want to behave correctly has to be the key, in the same way that having each driver obtain the best possible behaviours.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.