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malcolmw
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 16:47 
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From the Norwich Evening News

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Cyclists have been urged by a coroner to do everything they can to stay safe after a Norwich man was killed as he rode home from a party.

Trelawney Burgoyne, 39, did not have lights on his cycle and was not wearing a helmet or high visibility clothing.

He was also the equivalent of three times over the drink drive limit, an inquest heard.

Mr Burgoyne, an IT consultant from Paper Mill Yard, in the centre of Norwich, died after he was struck by two cars on the B1150 at Beeston St Andrew at about 9.45pm on June 5. He was cycling from Spixworth to Norwich after going to a Jubilee party.

At the end of yesterday’s inquest, Norfolk Coroner William Armstrong urged cyclists to think about their own safety before setting out.

He said: “There are two messages - the first one is the importance of having lights on your bicycle when riding at night. People have to be able to see ahead and people have to be able to see the bicycle. It’s important that cyclists wear reflective clothing so they can be seen.

“The second issue is alcohol. It’s unwise for people to ride bicycles when they have had a substantial amount of alcohol.”


Not really supportive of the argument that it should automatically be the driver's fault, is it.

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PeterE
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 16:54 
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Let us hope neither of the drivers were prosecuted.

And it is hugely irresponsible for some branches of CAMRA to continue to promote cycling pub-crawls.

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dcbwhaley
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:39 
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PeterE wrote:
And it is hugely irresponsible for some branches of CAMRA to continue to promote cycling pub-crawls.


Which branches? Cycle pub crawls are certainly not approved of by CAMRA head office

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botach
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 21:47 
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Quote:
He said: “There are two messages - the first one is the importance of having lights on your bicycle when riding at night. People have to be able to see ahead and people have to be able to see the bicycle. It’s important that cyclists wear reflective clothing so they can be seen.


I'm waiting for another advisory around here - for cyclists to consider what is more important- seeing where you are going ,and being visually aware iof danger or sending your mate a text on the move. Perhaps we need danger awareness courses for cyclists ( at the going rate ,of course) .Send them out in unmarked police vehicles to see what dangers cyclists place them selves in ,in both daylight and darkness. Then send them to a driver who's hit a cyclist ( or nearly hit one) at night,when the cyclist had no lights and was wearing dark clothing, and needed councilling.

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PeterE
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 22:11 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
PeterE wrote:
And it is hugely irresponsible for some branches of CAMRA to continue to promote cycling pub-crawls.

Which branches? Cycle pub crawls are certainly not approved of by CAMRA head office

York branch are notorious for this.

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SafeSpeedv2
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 15:54 
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Alcohol no. 1 - if not ought to be totally illegal.
Lights no. 2 - illegal.
Good visual gear no 3 guide & fair enough with a ticking off.

We must promote self responsibility and I am pleased that the Judge has done so.

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Homer
PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 18:16 
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PeterE wrote:
dcbwhaley wrote:
PeterE wrote:
And it is hugely irresponsible for some branches of CAMRA to continue to promote cycling pub-crawls.

Which branches? Cycle pub crawls are certainly not approved of by CAMRA head office

York branch are notorious for this.


Cycle pub crawl in York? How? You don't have space to mount a bike between pubs, it's out one door, in the next. :D Furthest you travel is to the other side of the road.
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botach
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 23:27 
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Homer wrote:

Cycle pub crawl in York? How? You don't have space to mount a bike between pubs, it's out one door, in the next. :D Furthest you travel is to the other side of the road.


Possibly the bike is needed ( as Iwitnessed one night ) to keep the rider up right (sort of a crutch ) :D

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dcbwhaley
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 00:33 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Alcohol no. 1 - if not ought to be totally illegal.


Are you seriously suggesting that cyclist should be forbidden to ride if they have taken any drink but that no such ban should apply to motorists? What is you attitude to motor-cyclists and pedestrians taking drink?

It is of course already illegal to cycle when drunk. Section 30 Road Traffic Act 1988 says: It is an offence for a person to ride a cycle on a road or other public place when unfit to ride through drink or drugs - that is to say - is under the influence of a drink or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the cycle.

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weepej
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 13:04 
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If I was a driver that hit an unlit drunk cyclist I'd be pretty mortified that my driving skills were so bad I didn't have the sense to drive within the scope of my headlights at a speed that meant I could stop in the distance I could see to be clear.

As a cyclist I'd be pretty silly to go out without lights cos I know there are such crap drivers out there that don't take enough care or pay enough attention.
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graball
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 16:26 
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Quote:
If I was a driver that hit an unlit drunk cyclist I'd be pretty mortified that my driving skills were so bad I didn't have the sense to drive within the scope of my headlights at a speed that meant I could stop in the distance I could see to be clear.


Que Sera Sera.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.
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dcbwhaley
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 13:17 
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PeterE wrote:
Let us hope neither of the drivers were prosecuted.


Surely that should be down to how much their actions or inactions contributed to the accident? To suggest that causing death by dangerous driving should be excused because the victim was committing a misdemeanour is to start down a very slippery path.

Avoiding unlit objects in the road is a skill that all drivers should posses since there are many unlit objects which are there quit legally -pedestrians, animals - , or by accident - tree branches, potholes, fallings from lorries. Like weepj I would be mortified if I hit an unlit cyclist or pedestrian.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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weepej
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 22:30 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
To suggest that causing death by dangerous driving should be excused because the victim was committing a misdemeanour is to start down a very slippery path.



Clearly with his que sera sera comment graball thinks offenders deserve an extra judicial death penalty, and I'm guessing in his world that any driver that kills such an offender is automatically cleared of any offences they may have been committing at the time, e.g. driving without due care and attention.
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weepej
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 22:35 
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Here we go.

Is anybody going to say the first driver to hit the guy was driving at a speed at which he could stop safely in the distance he could see to be clear?

Slammed on his brakes? Clearly not right?


http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/cor ... _1_1750042
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malcolmw
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 08:59 
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The point here is being lost. The coroner says what pretty much all of us on here support: everyone is responsible for their own safety and that of others. Going out on a bike in dark clothes, after drinking and with no lights is irresponsible irrespective of what others might be doing.

Everyone must be aware and responsible and thus liability should not be automatically assigned to one party.

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graball
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 14:26 
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Quote:
Clearly with his que sera sera comment graball thinks offenders deserve an extra judicial death penalty, and I'm guessing in his world that any driver that kills such an offender is automatically cleared of any offences they may have been committing at the time, e.g. driving without due care and attention.


Maybe my French/latin/german/spanish/norwegian ain't too good but what I meant was.....maybe one day Weeps, you may have the misfortune to find yourself in this dreadful scenario and I wonder if you would then be so forgiving of the person who was partly to blame for the accident or if you would be human like the rest of us and maybe think that the person without lights is an absolute a@@ehole ????

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.
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Mole
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 14:36 
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weepej wrote:
Here we go.

Is anybody going to say the first driver to hit the guy was driving at a speed at which he could stop safely in the distance he could see to be clear?

Slammed on his brakes? Clearly not right?


http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/cor ... _1_1750042


Why the first and not the second? If slamming on brakes is not right, why do they teach you how to do it when they tech you to drive and even test whether or not you can do it before they give you a licence?

SHARED SPACE - SHARED RESPONSIBILITY.
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