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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 17:17 
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ed_m wrote:
Mole wrote:
Toltec wrote:
Mole wrote:
On the rural roads round here there's no question - I HAVE been held up by cyclists.


I get held up by most things I catch up to.

Then again I quite enjoy overtaking.


Hard on a single track road with a big bunch of them taking most of it up in a big peloton, pretending they're doing the Tour de France!


presumeably on a single track road you wouldn't be able to overtake a lone cyclist, so the number is a little irrelevant ?
should they pull over to let a motorist past ?..... or, how long is reasonable for them not to pull over ?
getting stuck behind someone or something is a risk on any single track road...


When I'm out on my pushbike (on the same roads) I DO keep as far left as possible. I'm aware of the advice about taking up a more central position, but I feel uncomfortable doing that because I'm quite a slow cyclist and I regard it as quite a selfish thing to do. Few of these lanes are too narrow to allow a car to pass single (or single file of) cyclists. To be honest, I hate holding up traffic - largely because I don't like the idea of a car that I can't see very well being some indeterminate distance behind me for any length of time. If the opportunity presents itself (like a passing place), I willingly pull over and let it (them) past. I'm the slower moving vehicle and I feel an obligation to do so (just as a tractor driver (usually!) would).

How long is reasonable? It depends! I've sat there for 10 minutes completely stationary (car or bike) while a farmer herds his livestock a few hundred yards from one field to another. Can't do much about that - it's the countryside after all, and I like my steak and lamb chops as much has the next guy! I get pi55ed off when people are selfish. Our roads are too crowded a shared space for everyone to take as much time as they like (which I don't see as the same as taking as much time as they NEED). I'll follow a tractor (or cyclist) pretty much indefinitely without getting riled if I can see that there's nowhere for them to pull over. Same goes for me. I know Weepy probably wouldn't believe it, but yes, there are people who want to travel faster than ME on these roads and in that situation, I do all I can to try and facilitate their progress. I don't see myself as one of these self-appointed rolling roadblocks that the Cumbria Safety Camera partnership would like us to be.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 23:43 
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graball wrote:
Again, weepy your appalling maths is letting you down. Average speeds are dependent on the maximum speed you can achieve.



That's a gross oversimplification.

Whether you go at 10, 20 or 60 between lights in London in a car, your average speed will be the same. I imagine it's very similar in other towns and cities.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 23:58 
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Quote:
That's a gross oversimplification.

Whether you go at 10, 20 or 60 between lights in London in a car, your average speed will be the same. I imagine it's very similar in other towns and cities.
.


Only a mathematical moron could actually say that and believe it.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Last edited by graball on Mon Dec 09, 2013 08:59, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 01:05 
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BUT BACK ON TOPIC, something WEEPY likes to ignore, except when it suites him enough to complain, the topic was "Cyclists filmed jumping red lights, and caught on camera", nothing to do with "Whether you go at 10, 20 or 60 between lights in London in a car, your average speed will be the same. I imagine it's very similar in other towns and cities." - I'd then suggest he's egging the pudding, ot in simple terms , just trolling, and ask admin to remind weepy to post on topic ,once more.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:30 
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weepej wrote:
graball wrote:
Again, weepy your appalling maths is letting you down. Average speeds are dependent on the maximum speed you can achieve.



That's a gross oversimplification.

Whether you go at 10, 20 or 60 between lights in London in a car, your average speed will be the same. I imagine it's very similar in other towns and cities.


If that is true then it is also equally true of ignoring red lights.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 17:45 
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Quote:
I imagine it's very similar in other towns and cities.


Of course it is on planet weepy but where I live (pop 150,000) i did a 5 mile journey this morning in about 15 mins which is an average of 20MPH (get your abacus out weep) and that was before 9AM, between lights and passing two cyclists. The one held me up for a couple of mins but I didn't notice a tailback of cyclists behind me for some reason...not even a scottish one.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 22:45 
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Quote:
I imagine it's very similar in other towns and cities.

I'd suggest "imagine" is the operative word. I could imagine lots of things about other towns and cities, but I'd want to witness this before saying so in so many words . I don't think that some road users felt the strength of opinion over the danger they posed, or felt that evidence would be gathered.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 23:57 
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I've got a good imagination of what Londons like too. I know it's the centre of the universe from weepies observations that whatever goes on in London is universe wide. I imagine the streets are paved in gold (although I have never personally experienced it) because I once read a report that they were and a guy called Dick(Boris to his mates), from round our way,once walked all the way there to make his fortune, they made him mayor and now he makes bikes for londoners to drive around on. I imagine London to be a very lawless place as all the car drivers have horns and try and force the poor cylists off the roads when they are not deliberately holding them up by driving at 9MPH when the poor cyclists want to cycle at 16MPH. I imagine the poor cyclists have to jump red lights so the evil motorists don't hold them up too much. I imagine that no-one does much work in London because it takes all day to drive from one end to the other and the cyclists all have broken limbs from evil motorists forcing them off the road all the time.....wonderful thing this imagination thing.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 00:24 
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That's the trouble with the road safety "experts" that are setting our roads out these days, they have no experience but a poor imagination of real world traffic, based on snap shots of life in London and their limit driving experiences on motorways or urban rush hour traffic...let the traf pol decide what's safe or sensible and we would see a different world out there.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:30 
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For sure ! It's like lets have a good roundabout that does it's job then destroy it with an over control of lights that totally negate the whole point of the roundabout in the first place! D'Oh !

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 14:38 
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My vote for the most dumbass things that the "experts" locally to me are installing are the vision obstructing panels on the central reservations on the approach roads to larger roundabouts. They block your view to the right so that you can't see traffic already on the roundabout. So now, reducing sight lines and visibility is a good thing.

The idea is to "make" you slow down and not maintain momentum if you can see the roundabout is clear. Doh! What next? Making drivers wear blinkers?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 17:47 
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At least you will be going slower when you (not you personally of course) hit something so the statistics will show it is safer.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 18:25 
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For sure ! It's like lets have a good roundabout that does it's job then destroy it with an over control of lights that totally negate the whole point of the roundabout in the first place! D'Oh !


That's not forgeting the artificial pinch points on the approach and exit to roundabouts now which mean that if two cars try and enter/exit the roundabout side by side it will almost always end in an exchange of paintwork or worse.

Yes malcolm we had £140,000 (£40,000 of that was for about 40 pieces of plastic that look like rainwater guttering...a fiver each from plumbcenter) spent on one of our roundabouts a few years ago for the same daft reason.....why not make cars with no side windows that would slow people down too....crunch!

it would appear the qualifications for being a road "safety expert" now is to get the person with the least qualifications or experience or someone who spells safety this way...."danger"

i suppose the act of dangerous driving will soon be a way of life, as we will have no option soon but to drive "dangerously" to stay "safe".

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 21:10 
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botach wrote:
BUT BACK ON TOPIC, something WEEPY likes to ignore, except when it suites him enough to complain, the topic was "Cyclists filmed jumping red lights, and caught on camera", nothing to do with "Whether you go at 10, 20 or 60 between lights in London in a car, your average speed will be the same. I imagine it's very similar in other towns and cities." - I'd then suggest he's egging the pudding, ot in simple terms , just trolling, and ask admin to remind weepy to post on topic ,once more.


botach, the ORIGINAL post in this thread included the assertion that cyclists slow drivers down.

And since you posted this you've continued in that discussion which you classed as off topic.

Forgive me if your rant seems a little powerless!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 21:20 
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graball wrote:
as all the car drivers have horns and try and force the poor cylists off the roads when they are not deliberately holding them up by driving at 9MPH when the poor cyclists want to cycle at 16MPH.



You're still not getting the concept of average speed here are you...

Let me explain.

When I cycle in London I travel along at about 20mph. It takes me one hour to go 16 miles, that's a 16mph average speed.

I don't drive to work in the rush hour (I'm not silly enough), but published traffic speeds are 9mph. I imagine it would take me at least two hours to drive the 16 miles to work (if I was lucky), but I'd be getting up to 30mph between junctions. However, I'm not interested in my top speed, just my average. So 16 miles in two hours is an average of 8mph, which lines up with the published speed of 9mph average for cars in town.

If you need any further help I suggest you speak to a secondary school maths teacher.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 21:50 
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Quote:
graball wrote:
as all the car drivers have horns and try and force the poor cylists off the roads when they are not deliberately holding them up by driving at 9MPH when the poor cyclists want to cycle at 16MPH.



You're still not getting the concept of average speed here are you...

Let me explain.

When I cycle in London I travel along at about 20mph. It takes me one hour to go 16 miles, that's a 16mph average speed.

I don't drive to work in the rush hour (I'm not silly enough), but published traffic speeds are 9mph. I imagine it would take me at least two hours to drive the 16 miles to work (if I was lucky), but I'd be getting up to 30mph between junctions. However, I'm not interested in my top speed, just my average. So 16 miles in two hours is an average of 8mph, which lines up with the published speed of 9mph average for cars in town.

If you need any further help I suggest you speak to a secondary school maths teacher.




i Fully understand averages thank you and I don't understand why you take a quote from my take on an imaginative take on London driving habits to try and demonstrate your poor maths.

i can quite believe that at certain times of the day and over certain routes it is far quicker to cycle across sections of London than drive it, just as there are parts of telford where the traffic lights are so ridiculous, that I've watched pedestrians disappear into the distance over a short stretch of road where the traffic lights, even at off peak times, have held traffic up to such an extent but I don't think anyone except yourself, would claim that traffic would hold up the pedestrians just because the pedestrians were moving faster.

I would imagine that your journey average of 16MPH over 16 miles at a max speed of 20MPH would leave little or no time for slowing down or stoppages at lights (but red light jumping isn't your bag is it weepy?) when my journey average of 20 MPH with a max speed of 40MPH over a much shorter distance, is so similar, speed wise, with less lights for me to stop at than you would find in London but hey ho there are two things in life that never seem to lie, one is the camera and the other is a wee scots bloke who cycles round London at an average of 16MPH.

My main objection is your ridiculous claim that cars always seem to hold up cyclists in all towns and cities across the UK.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 22:09 
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Weepy, read this again, SLOWLY and tell me which bit you don't understand.


"Average speeds are dependent on the maximum speed you can achieve.

If you cannot hit 30MPH because you are constantly stuck behind a cyclist only doing 20MPH,

who can then go up the side of stationary traffic, all the time that you are stationary


then your average speed is going to be less than the cyclist

but it doesn't mean that he wasn't holding you up...understand?"

I've split it into little thought size bites for you to digest slowly, if it helps.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 23:06 
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weepej wrote:
botach wrote:
BUT BACK ON TOPIC, something WEEPY likes to ignore, except when it suites him enough to complain, the topic was "Cyclists filmed jumping red lights, and caught on camera", nothing to do with "Whether you go at 10, 20 or 60 between lights in London in a car, your average speed will be the same. I imagine it's very similar in other towns and cities." - I'd then suggest he's egging the pudding, ot in simple terms , just trolling, and ask admin to remind weepy to post on topic ,once more.


botach, the ORIGINAL post in this thread included the assertion that cyclists slow drivers down.

And since you posted this you've continued in that discussion which you classed as off topic.

Forgive me if your rant seems a little powerless!



WEEPY- you constantly assert that Cyclists do not run red lights. ( Topic of this post, not cyclists slowing down drivers, as YOU assert ,so it's you that's admitted going o/t -out of the mouth of babes / fools /cyclists and those guilty of Terminological inexactitude )
Lets put it simply .
Taxi drivers film sets of lights, after several incidents compromising taxi drivers safety
Film shows cyclists going through lights on RED. ( See title of post- Cyclists filmed jumping red lights-taxi drivers' hidden camera)
No denying it -cyclists jump red lights - proved by camera, and as you say ,camera NEVER lies .
QED.
I'd suggest that when in hole ,you can't get out of you stop digging to give yourself chance to get out.
OH-BTW- I'm not ranting, just pointing out some home truths ( and facts).

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Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 23:12 
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botach wrote:
WEEPY- you constantly assert that Cyclists do not run red lights.


Where?

I see people on bikes jumping red lights every day, I've even said this further up the post, where are you getting this information from that I'm saying hat no cyclist jumps red lights?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 23:16 
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graball wrote:
but it doesn't mean that he wasn't holding you up...understand?"


But he wasn't holding up your journey, the 20 cars waiting at the lights are doing that!


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