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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 02:34 
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This week's CW has a really good letter - and it does tie with two of the heated threads on here about the paths and pedestrians...

Alan S of Loughborough Phoenix CC wrote:
Root Out The Rogues

My expereince as 40 years as a club cyclist is that 97% of all drivers are very considerate towards cyclists and other road users


Ye gods! :bow: In a Cycling mag and they published it :clap: About time too that it was made very clear that cyclists as a majority grown up and responsible collective also share and negotiate without any conflict whatsoever.


I agree with this bloke on many of his points too! :wink:

Quote:

Of the remaing 3% - I would say 2% of these use poor judgement and the remaining 1% are those whose behaviour suggests we should not be there to impede their porgress or enjoyment of driving


Yep - these are the tailgaters from hell as well ...

Quote:

The medium and long term answer is not to impose greater penalties on drivers who kill or maim


On this one - would say depends on what they did - and there's a big difference between a fatal accidental collision and a deliberate act of dangerous driving and there are degrees of carelessness - and I have already posted up what the CPS has to prove beyond reasonable doubt - and the criteria which makes up the charges...

Quote:

but to mske the government introduce programmes of education and training that modifies behaviour and attitudes toward the positive safety of all road users


We already have DIS and some Partnerships offer Speed Awareness Courses (and the quality of the latter varies from lack lustre to shining ( ie - Lancs and Staffs and COAST :wink: )


But - I agree - it should be extended and the initial learning programme and test tightened...and all intending to ride bikes should also achieve some proficiency target. :wink:

Quote:

Governments are influenced by voters. If we influence voters - we indirectly influence the government to make the death and injury of cyclists less socially aceptable by education and training.


:? What about all other road users?

Quote:

In my opinion - one of the priority groups for behavioural training is club cyclists. The absence of any effective policies or training by the clubs results in totally inappropriate riding behaviour among many club riders


Yep - the clubs could take on the role of teaching the basic skills per Cycle Craft's values. It would be a good way forward and encourage more club acitivity and socialising that way :)

I can also confirm that this guy's next experience does sadly happen...on odd occasions

Quote:

A couple of weeks ago, for example, while waiting at traffic lights - I was engulfed by 50-60 riders who I later discovered were apparently on a reliability trial. They completely ignored the red signals, rode across junctions and spread across the whole road wiht no consideration for any other road user. Their behaviour was totally counter to encouraging a positive reaction from other road users.


I would agree. Daft and arrogant behaviour does not endear either party to each other. :wink:

Sadly such episodes do rear their ugly head every so often - and it's quite easy for these clubs to obtain a special permit from the councils to run these trials without compromising anyone :)


Of course - they have to provide documentation and evidence of risk assessments.... for insurance and HSE purposes ... :wink:

His next point is fair comment


Quote:

Let all cyclists acknowledge that we are not always victims. A minority of our fraternity display attitudes that completely destroy the basis of a mutually safer relationship with all other road users


Yep - as with drivers - in fact entire human races - a minority tarnish the rest....

Alan S offers a solution of sorts...

Quote:

Maybe our sport's governing body and the CW team should take steps to educate and train more effectively

Government, cycling organisations, clubs and individual riders all have a major part to play in reducing the frequency in whihc someone has to tell a loved one of a terrible - but avoidable loss

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Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 13:23 
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Allan Ramsway of "Roadpeace" goes off on one again :roll: in his replies to readers's letters commending "DIS" and all training.

For a so called spokesperson of the safety group - remarkably short sighted and subjective.

When we look at legislation and even using discretion - we have to remain objective - else justice will fail and certainly safety records will never improve

He says
Quote:

Things took a turn for the worse as soon as we invented the car. From that day forward millions of lives were lost every day


Nope - in real terms - we lose far less on the roads - and more in DIY accident per the National Stat Figures :roll:

Sure - he writes that some are receptive to education and others are not .. ask any teacher... some never learn from mistakes and we agree on this

Quote:

Of those who might never learn - we have the likes of car thieves



But this - from someone suypposedly to hold office in RoadPeace is a DISGRACE!


Quote:
red light jumpers

And cyclists. of course, obey these rules - heck they even object if the good cycle path means the odd "Give way at a junction!" :shock: :furious:


Quote:

speeding drivers


Well - there are degrees and if a cyclist chooses to ride on a fast NSL or 40 mph -60 mph road - then he has to plan and be more than aware of the conditions around him - using COAST and riding to Cycle Craft :wink: - and if there is a path to use - he should use it :wink:


In town - that' s another matter -= but you usually find the congestion is such that you cannot speed anyway .... :roll:

-
Quote:
drivers who hate cyclists because they do not pay insurance or

:roll: car tax



Subjective stereotyping and feeding of an urban myth. But a prudent person does insure his Trek/Giant/Diamond=back/Stinky/Cannondale /Swiss etc as they are rather expensive... :shock:

Quote:

and drivers who drive using a mobile phone


Oh agree on this - we play rough with this one when it comes on the board - Wildy in particular raised hackles on this one.. :twisted:

But what about cyclists who use them - I hear the lads and lasses here stopped 5 cyclists wobbling around our patch using these.

I simply do not understand the pre-occupation and "must reply to everything"

Is it the isolate existences whcih technology is making - need to "feel loved"

Perhaps an education into developing normal human contact and personal touchy-feely social skills may be a way forward. :wink:
Quote:

As a cyclist I am the most vulberable in society and want legislation for those in cars who threaten my life every day


Oh here - we go again

:furious: :censored:


ME! ME! ME!

You are NOT by any stretch of the imagination the MOST VULNERABLE IN SOCIETY!

I have one elderly lady on our patch as an SI stat becase se a cylist collided with her and she broke her hip. I can cite examples where children have come off the worse from an encounter with a pavement cyclist and we have complains from people in wheelchairs and those parents pushing prams because they feel threatened as much more VULNERABLE than any one on any wheels ... be they roller blade, roller skates, bicycles, mopeds, motorbikes or CARS !

As for being threatened each day when cycling ... one has to ask and wonder WHY?

Could it possiobly be that that this cyclist needs to re-acquaint himself with Cycle Craft? Because if he is not learning any defences to shield himslef or anticipate where on a commute - he is likely to meet the pinch point where a novice make a a mistake or he meets the taxi driver or Ms Make Up - pout the lippy from hell - and what qbout his riding positiion - you ride to be SEEN! Means using lights, dressing accordingly and ensuring the glance back and positioning are "obvious" - and it also means constant LOOKOUT and COAST!

Quote:

John Cotrell holds a woman responsible for her own death because she did not look both ways. Should she also have looked over her should as constant for muggers and rapists


:censored: :furious:

well yes - as a matter of fact she should - we all should - being aware of danger is our natural defence mechanism - it's how we survived the caves and the dinosaurs - and how we risk assess and prioritise our response to danger.

Perhaps I should not double check I switch off domestic apliances and lock my home when I go out too.


And he concludes with further blinkered nonsense...

Quote:

If education was the answer to all our problems - we could then dispense with police, customs smndexcise, trading standards, security guards and referees in sport - and become teachers instead


And this sums up the woolly minded thinking and precisely why he needs educating - with immediate effect as with an attitude like that - he is a danger to ME and MY WIFE and MY KIDS!:furious: :banghead:

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 13:33 
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In Gear wrote:
Quote:

A couple of weeks ago, for example, while waiting at traffic lights - I was engulfed by 50-60 riders who I later discovered were apparently on a reliability trial. They completely ignored the red signals, rode across junctions and spread across the whole road wiht no consideration for any other road user. Their behaviour was totally counter to encouraging a positive reaction from other road users.


I would agree. Daft and arrogant behaviour does not endear either party to each other. :wink:

Sadly such episodes do rear their ugly head every so often - and it's quite easy for these clubs to obtain a special permit from the councils to run these trials without compromising anyone :)


Of course - they have to provide documentation and evidence of risk assessments.... for insurance and HSE purposes ... :wink:


i take reliability trial to mean an audax ride or one of the increasing number of sportives... which presumeably have much of the documentation you mention.


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