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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 23:23 
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The other magazine :shhh: bangs on about "contributory negligence" - saying that insurance companies will try to reduce compo if the cyclist was not using the facility provided.

:scratchchin:

They have a lot to learn about these vultures who swoop down and charge us a fortune each year.

Look - it's a business... and they will reduce and retain profits and cash if they can. It's not the drivers' cash - it's theirs... :x

I know the tricks they pull.. and trying to get out of paying compo to my wife because "the driver was deceased prior to impact" was one of the many dirties they try on.. and when neither admit liablity - they'll go for a split. When this occurs - they will refer to the Highway Code as beacon of common sense and good practice. Most of these "changes" are not dramatic changes either... more or less clarifying what is already there anyway :roll: If the Code is changed to a legal requirement to use the paths - then there will have to be a legal requirement to maintain them... :wink: and I intend to be even more of a nuisance to that silly little man in't council offices over the "facilities" here. :twisted:

The :shhh: mag is opposed to helmets.. and quotes the case of 9 year old Darren who is permanently disabled after being involved in a collision. It seems the insurance company argued that the parents were "negligent" in that they allowed the boy to ride unaccompanied and helmetless. Yhe company used the existing wording of the Highway Code as its "get out clause to reduce compo".

They do indeed use every which way they can to keep their dosh - but I fear the reporting of this tragic story may be just a little over emotional in that we are not told what kind of road they boy rode on.. Urban or residential and the most mediocre lawyer in the land would have minced this to pulp - and fair compo given. Fast road and they may have had a point.... :? :? It does not say...

Case like this should have gone to court... surely? But I seem to recall a similar case ... company backed down and gave the full compensation. But then - adult male - he died. I do not know if the company showed a bit more compassion to young Darren eventually or even if this is a continuing case - article just does not say... :?

The CTC is jumping the gun though. They are claiming that "should use the paths/should wear a helmet" and it will be "impossible to prove the driver was careless or plain dangerous in the case of a collision - as the accident would not occur if the cyclist had been in a different place at the time... "

Yep ... one second sooner... if only my wife's cousin had chosen a different route.... my wife the A road and not the M road.. if they had set out earlier or later.. ..

No - jumping the gun...if a fatal or serious - it gets investigated thoroughly. I was amazed and relieved at how thoroughly the incidents involving my wife and her sadly deceased cousin were investigated.


If a medium/slight and neither accept liabilty - goes to split liability and these range 50/50 to 80/20...based on the diagrams and the accounts of the accidents - with a referral to the Highway Code as to what a reasonable person ought to have done - Agree these companies are vultures - but changes to the Highway Code are not going to change these companies for the worse or better.

They will continue to retain as much profit as possible and charge even higher premiums - even if they paid out the bare mimimum on compo...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:33 
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In Gear wrote:
On the letters page - reader writes about his concerns over the changes to "two abreast"

Per Rule 51 - (equivalent of Drivers Rule 121 -124 - the "courtesy ones" :wink: as it stands - cyclists are told to show consideration for other road users - keep both feet on pedals, both hands on the bar (gear change/singal apart :wink: ), not to ride too close to another vehicle, not carry anything which will affect balance, or get tangled in wheels. pedals, chain , and to be vigilant of other road users

It also advises not to ride more than two abreast and to ride in single file on narrow and on busy roads

This is the rule as it stands at the moment. :wink:

The proopsed change? FIVE words!

ride in single file on narrow roads and on busy roads and when riding around bends



Sounds like common sense to me and I feel unsafe riding two abreast on a straight ride on the rare occasions it happens (catching up another cyclist and having a chat).


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 20:20 
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Cheers mate.. :bow:

A true breath of common sense! Yet again .. :bow:

These proposals are not out to "get anyone". Highway Code is pure basic common sense in action - and - yep - insurance companies and the liable driver will try to minimise costs as much as they can - and the changes are not that radical anyway..

If you can prove a fair case - you get the compo - albeit eventually as in Wildy's case - whereby they tried to pull a really daft one on some very tiger-like Swiss. :wink: and were mauled .. ....


If you played a part in the unhappy event .. then only right this is reflected.

Have a rather interesting CW reader letter though - merits own thread :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 23:59 
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Writer in CW (letters) argues that the proposed changes to the Highway Code will hamper rcaes and trials .. as they will be forced to use the cycle lanes...


errrm NOPE! Not if permits were applied for and given in advance.. as per current practice :wink:


He argues that the cyclists will not be able to train properly etc if forced to use the lanes ....

er... :? Still says "where practicable" These are not huge changes and in rush hour traffic.... yeah right .. for sure .. you can push .. NOT! :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 14:28 
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pulled this commons extract from another forum:

Quote:

Cycling
3. Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): If he will make a statement on his Department's strategy for (a) increasing cycling journey numbers and (b) reducing cycling injuries and deaths. [66803]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Derek Twigg): The Government set up Cycling England to plan and co-ordinate the development of cycling across the country. Cycling England is supporting local authorities by providing expert advice on the design and promotion of cycling and showcasing best practice in six towns. Measures to improve safety include recommending safety and visibility aids, publicity campaigns, promoting cycle training, and raising motorists' awareness through training and testing.

Jo Swinson: Many people are deeply concerned about the draft revised highway code and the effect that it will have on cyclists. If, as is proposed, it is changed to require cyclists to use cycling facilities, a cyclist involved in an accident with a vehicle might not be covered by the motorist's insurance company due to a contributory negligence claim. Will the Minister give us an assurance that the new highway code will not force cyclists off the road for fear of legal consequences?

Derek Twigg: The simple answer is that it will not.

Mr. David S. Borrow (South Ribble) (Lab): We want to encourage more cyclists to use our roads in urban areas, but I am sure that many hon. Members will have noticed the increasing propensity of cyclists to ignore traffic regulations. They often cycle straight through red traffic lights and over pedestrian crossings. What action is my hon. Friend's Department taking to increase the education of cyclists, and to enforce existing legislation?

Derek Twigg: We have set up Cycling England, which plays an important role in taking cycling forward, and we will see better cycling safety training and driver awareness. Significant extra sums have been invested, not least in providing safer routes to school to increase the safety of younger people.

Daniel Kawczynski (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): In regard to the point raised by the hon. Member for South Ribble (Mr. Borrow), the House of Lords has recently discussed a proposal for vehicle registration for cycles to encourage cyclists to be more responsible on the roads. What is the Minister's view of that proposal?

Derek Twigg: The key issue is that cycling is a sustainable type of travel that is very good for people's fitness and health, and we want to encourage it. It is also important that we continue to press safety awareness issues and to make them clear to cyclists and motorists alike. Increased investment has been made in cycle training and in developing cycle training programmes, which will be important for improving safety on the roads for cyclists and motorists.

Lynne Jones (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): What about training for motorists? Instead of trying to confine cyclists to using specific cycling provision, which might be inadequate, will my hon. Friend consider the practice in continental Europe, where far more people cycle? One of my constituents, who comes from France, tells me that the French highway code places the onus on motorists to give cyclists plenty of space. Can we look to best practice in European countries and bring our cycling levels up to theirs?

Derek Twigg: Yes, we can clearly learn lessons from such best practice, and we will do so. The consultation on the highway safety code finishes on 10 May and we will listen to any suggestions and proposals made. I hope that, when the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron) cycles anywhere, the Lexus carrying his socks and shoes is far enough behind him.


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 22:23 
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I think I agree with Mr Twigg. I do not see these proposals as "off putting" or placing me in any disadvantage in the event of a collision if on my bike either.


But I take a pride in my cycling just as I take a pride in my driving. I like to think I do both safely and courteously. I think the National Standard is a significant step in the right direction and think anyone who even intends to use the bike to commute should achieve this level and have a well thumbed Cycle Craft on the bookshelf. :wink: I see no problem with training - continuous training for all who travel by wheels - whether two or four or more.. :wink:

I would also think that if we all chose to travel by means of a bicycle - then we would have to design a whole new code of safe practice.

Anyone who has been on a club outing knows .. if you get into a bunch situation .. you are really jostling. It can be a bit daunting.. be honest!

Please imagine.. if 32 million ditched their cars.... for a bicycle....

Somehow I do not think it would be the utopia such people imagine... :yikes:

My sister-in- law once holidayed in China. She showed a holiday film to us of her experiences. I would not have liked to have ridden my bike in that kind of bunch... even the taxi driver from hell gives me more space at a pinch point.. :yikes:


She also told us that they did to her as they did to Michael Palin.. .. asked her to choose a live snake to eat. She tells me she then decided on fish and had to choose from a tank.

She then decided on rice and vegetables only

Apart from the food and some crowding in Beijing.. she did enjoy the holiday.

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Smilies are contagious
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We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 20:24 
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I have no problem with having to single out around bends; like others on here I'm always very aware that I might be in someone's way if I'm riding two abreast and I don't like it. How many car drivers know that cyclists often can't hear cars behind them?
I don't like the idea that we may be forced to use cycle paths though. I use a bike purely as a means of transport these days (my Audax days are sadly behind me now...I don't have the time any more :cry: ) and I don't have time to stop at fifteen factory entrances, deal with 28 recalcitrant pedestrians (and their dogs and/or imbecile children) and mend 103 punctures caused by broken glass. Besides, there are approximately no cycle paths on any of my four routes to work (not even the painted - on - the - roadside variety) and I get an adrenaline rush out of mixing with the "hard" traffic and riding as quick as I can anyway. I always wear a helmet and a high vis, and my lights are worth about £150 - after all, you've got to give yourself a chance.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 23:00 
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Rhythm Thief wrote:
I have no problem with having to single out around bends; like others on here I'm always very aware that I might be in someone's way if I'm riding two abreast and I don't like it. How many car drivers know that cyclists often can't hear cars behind them?


Glad to hear you don't like two abreast. I prefer to ride in single file as well. If I am riding alongside a pal and we hear a car coming - one of us drops back to become a single file.

You have to use ears when riding - and I am aware that many well serviced saloons are relatively quiet compared to the more throaty sounds of yesteryear and certain sports cars :lol:

I have sometimes found though that if riding in windy weather or very wet weather can make hearing traffic more difficult and - yes - I think my helmet may add to this problem. I seem to hear the raindrops keep falling on my head :lol:

:boxedin: I'm now humming that song now....



Quote:
I don't like the idea that we may be forced to use cycle paths though. I use a bike purely as a means of transport these days (my Audax days are sadly behind me now...I don't have the time any more :cry: ) and I don't have time to stop at fifteen factory entrances, deal with 28 recalcitrant pedestrians (and their dogs and/or imbecile children) and mend 103 punctures caused by broken glass. Besides, there are approximately no cycle paths on any of my four routes to work (not even the painted - on - the - roadside variety) and I get an adrenaline rush out of mixing with the "hard" traffic and riding as quick as I can anyway. I always wear a helmet and a high vis, and my lights are worth about £150 - after all, you've got to give yourself a chance.


There are some decent cycle paths around. Many areas have turned disused rail lines into landscaped paths and these can work out quite well for some people. Sadly - really decent paths are countable on one hand and the proposals are still advising to use if "practicable" and no MUST.

But delighted to read you wear a helmet and nothing at all wrong in riding on the road at all - so long as rules of road are obeyed. Safe cycling depends on communicating and negotiating with the other road users anyway.

Most behave decently. But the hard core 5% of ill-mannered t:censored:s -

well .... we do try to nab them.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 23:24 
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In Gear wrote:
There are some decent cycle paths around. Many areas have turned disused rail lines into landscaped paths and these can work out quite well for some people. Sadly - really decent paths are countable on one hand and the proposals are still advising to use if "practicable" and no MUST.

But delighted to read you wear a helmet and nothing at all wrong in riding on the road at all - so long as rules of road are obeyed. Safe cycling depends on communicating and negotiating with the other road users anyway.

Most behave decently. But the hard core 5% of ill-mannered t:censored:s -

well .... we do try to nab them.


I agree - I can't be doing with inconsiderate idiots who give us all a bad name, whether by riding at night without lights (a personal bugbear, me being a lorry driver) or hammering down the pavement.
I like riding on the road because I like to go balls to the wall everywhere if I can. On the road, even flat out you are barely keeping up (except in traffic); on a cycle path, if you ride flat out you'll soon come accros pedestrians or slower cyclists who won't be ready for you going at 25 mph plus. And rightly so, it's not the place to be doing that sort of speed. So I don't think I'd use cycle paths even if they were available - I never thought I'd say this, but I think I'd just be too fast! :o :D


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 23:40 
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What difference should riding two abreast on a bend make?

Cyclists riding two abreast are perceived as an inconvenience to drivers wishing to overtake.

Given that, as per the current rule 139, drivers should allow horses, mopeds and cyclists as much room as a car when they overtake, therefore in most circumstances, it matters not a jot that cyclists are riding two abreast. On most UK roads, if there is not enough room to safely overtake cyclists riding two abreast then there is not enough room to safely overtake cyclists riding in single file.

Many drivers are ignorant of rule 139 and have no idea why you should give a cyclist so much room. All the time I have drivers passing within half a foot of my bicycle even though there is a full lane going in the same direction which is clear for them to use whilst overtaking.

I acknowledge that on some wider roads it maybe possible for drivers to safely pass cyclists riding in single file without crossing the central white line, but cyclists should feel safe to ride two abreast on such roads on approach to a hazard (like a short narrow section of road, raised central reservation etc.). Also on country lanes I think cyclists should show courtesy to vehcles that have slowed down, by pulling into single file and if necessary stopping to allow vehicles to pass safely.

As for any compulsion to use cycle paths, this is completely misguided. There is no reason why cyclists and motorists cannot safely share the roads by sticking to some basic rules and principles. The roads for many, many reasons are safer and more convenient to use than cycle paths.

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