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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 20:55 
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The Danes have carried out some research - and it has been "peer reviewed" by Danish academics.. I do have the report by the University of Copenhagen - courtesy of "Frankfurter Allgemeine" of last week and pounced on with feline glee by Wildy and her sister. :lol: :lol: :lol:

SO? What is this all about?

Well - the "Wail" did publish and I did see a similar brief paragraph in the "Indie" as well today.

[quote="both papers summarised"]

:listenup:

Cyclists who use LIGHTS IN DAYLIGHT cut accidents by ONE THIRD!

Danish researchers...


( remember this is CYCLE FRIENDLY ZONE AND OFT CITED AS SHINING EXAMPLE BY THE TROLL FROM HELL AND SOME OTHER BLOKE CALLED HOWARD AS PLACE WHICH CAN DO NO WRONG :wink:


.. Danish researchers examined the accident record of 4,000 cyclists. Half in their sample of 8,0000 were asked to use lights 24/7 and he remainder to comply with the existing law of onely when dark.

They found that those using the lights 24/7 - including daylight hours - were 35% LESS LIKELY to be involved in an accident.

The figure rose to 40% in the summer months when Denmark - like UK and Europe enjoy long daylight hours.

Anke Boye mayor of Odense where this research took place says

"The result is rather conclusive and will lead to natiionwide reaction and a change to Danish Law and potentially EU law

More than 16,000 cyclists are seriously injured or killed in the UK per last year's stats

Roger Vincent of RoSPA says

"Cyclists are amongst our vulnerable road users and these findings are

:listenup: [b] a reminder to them of how important it is to make themselves visible


PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS NOT THE SWISS FAMILY OR PERSON WHO IS MARRIED TO ONE OF THEM SAYING THIS - BUT THE SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ROYAL SOCIETY OF THE PREVENTION OF ACCIDENTS AND HE IS ONLY SAYING WHAT MY SISTER-IN -LAW AND HER HUSBAND ONCE POSTED TO A CYCLING SITE AND WHO STILL SUFFER SOME CRASS STUPIDITY ON THE PART OF THE TERMINALLY STUPID AS A RESULT OF THIS COMMON SENSE ADVICE

(Sorry Paul - not intending to fan any flames or open old wounds - but some things just have to be said - and it's not me saying this - nor the Swiss nor IG as a policeman dedicated to savind lives - but RoSPA itself )

I am also more than pleased to report that the DfT are "studying these findings with interest"

Long live bike lights and high viz fashion by Assos (a SWISS firm!) :wink:

And this brings us now parellel and equal with the drivers and dippy daylight lights we all debated some time back . :wink:

So .. I trust some members will not shoot me :wink: I report only what I have read in "Wail" and some foreign papers and tried to say my opinion within this post too -in that I agree that as a cyclist I have a duty or obligation as a courteous fellow road user to ensure I am SEEN BY ALLWHO SHARE THE ROAD WITH ME.. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 23:00 
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It would be interesting to look at high visibility high contrasting clothing (as high-visibility clothing in itself is in some circumstances rendered ineffective, e.g. in significant glare) as compared to the use of lights.

I tend to use a bright rear flashing LED in all but the brightest of conditions and I have to say you have to look twice to notice it unless under the cover of rain clouds.

Further more, driving attitudes in this country are different, particularly in respect of cyclists. I've conducted a couple of experiments, completely subjective and anecdotal of course, but they work something like this.

Ride out on the road on road bike, high visibility and high contrast clothing, rear LED switched on, and head adorned with highly visible lid.

Ride out on the road on supermarket MTB, jeans and t-shirt. No lights, no helmet.

The latter mode results in more space allowed by passing motorists and fewer 'fail to yield' incidents at junctions.

Maybe I look more like a juvenile using the latter mode? In the former mode, I think motorists assume that I am experienced, in more control of the bike and 'used to them'.

Or perhaps the theory is, by looking like I belong on the pavement and not a road, i.e. not part of the schema, motorists are more likely to acknowledge me. Looking like I should be on the road, I blend into the schema with everything else that motorists expect to see. Therefore they don't specifically awknowledge me.

My experience is consistent with that of other cyclists.

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:12 
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What was the overall picture regarding incidents with cyclists for the time of the research (i.e. not just the lit cyclists).

The trouble with something like this is that unless it is made compulsory for all, you create an expectation in other road users that lights = bike, no lights = no bike. It therefore becomes more dangerous for those without lights. c.f Motorbikes.

Also - at what point do the lights become compulsory? Is it all the time, e.g. today on my ride in the bright sunshine, where the led light is practically invisible? Who chooses when to switch on the lights?

One of the nice things about the summer is that you can dump a load of stuff off the bike. Mudguards, lights, protective clothing etc.

I know that there are stealth cyclists, but they are in a minority, and what's more, most of those wouldn't take any notice of legislation.

It's taking responsibility away from the motorist to drive within the distance they can see is safe and putting more on other road users.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:20 
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B cyclist wrote:
One of the nice things about the summer is that you can dump a load of stuff off the bike. Mudguards, lights, protective clothing etc.


You have confidence in the British weather! If the last few days are anything to go by all three may be required at any time.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 12:29 
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Rewolf wrote:
B cyclist wrote:
One of the nice things about the summer is that you can dump a load of stuff off the bike. Mudguards, lights, protective clothing etc.


You have confidence in the British weather! If the last few days are anything to go by all three may be required at any time.


:lol: :lol:

yes, I have been caught out!


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 13:10 
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B cyclist wrote:
It's taking responsibility away from the motorist to drive within the distance they can see is safe and putting more on other road users.


It is. But I'm more worried about the losers in the 'visibility arms race'. If cyclists become more visible, then pedestrians (for example) become relatively less visible. I believe that it's relative visibility that's most important to system safety.

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 13:27 
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Paul, exactly.

I actually had a sentence in my post originally, referring to pedestrians, but I took it out before posting so as to keep a bit more on topic.

However, the logical extrapolation is that this is tested on pedestrian too and pedestrian lighting systems are developed.

I can't find an Emoticon showing a pedestrian all lit up... :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 13:36 
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Interesting post MM, just a couple of questions.

The lights they were using, were they LEDs, Halogen, HID or standard filaments?

Were they just back lights, front lights or both?

As you say, Denmark is good example of a cycle friendly society, does the research differentiate between accidents on the road and on cycle paths? (I'm assuming, and I may be wrong, that a lot of the cycle journeys in Denmark are made on dedicated lanes rather than on the road).

I know one of SS's mantras is equal responsibility for all road users (not necessarily something I agree with but that's another debate), if this is the case won't all vehicles on the road have to be painted in hi-viz colours and have their headlights on constantly? (I refer you to Paul's post RE:visibilty arms race).

Maybe you should keep your C+ issues off-site. I'm sure you'll agree with me that inflammatory posts help no-one. Especially in arguments between imovable objects and irresistable forces. Please don't take offence at this, I know you and I disagree on many things and this is not a personal dig, just a polite request.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 15:53 
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ed_o_brain wrote:
The latter mode results in more space allowed by passing motorists and fewer 'fail to yield' incidents at junctions.


I can vouch for your conclusions. One night I found that my rear light had died and that my spare batteries were also dead. Doh. I was given so much space that night it was unbelievable.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 15:54 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
But I'm more worried about the losers in the 'visibility arms race'.

and when everyone is forced to use lights during the day then we're back to square one.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 20:58 
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Peyote wrote:
Interesting post MM, just a couple of questions.

The lights they were using, were they LEDs, Halogen, HID or standard filaments?

Were they just back lights, front lights or both?


From the original papers - all were in use. But they did not split and I think they should have done so.

Quote:
As you say, Denmark is good example of a cycle friendly society, does the research differentiate between accidents on the road and on cycle paths? (I'm assuming, and I may be wrong, that a lot of the cycle journeys in Denmark are made on dedicated lanes rather than on the road).


The research was carried out in Odense - I have never visited this place but have been to Copenhagen and some other Danish resort once for a holiday. We did some sailing in the Baltic - we have some fond memories of many quaint coastal villages.

From the blurb I have from the German equivalent of the "BMJ" which also carries this research and like the BMJ - you have to pay to view these days - so useless to provide an on-line link. It's also written in German.

Odense does have a mix of dedicated lanes and roady use. As such it was "ideal" for this research piece.

It has shades of comparison with the call for drivers to use headlamps all the time

Really why this piece caught my attention like this. :wink: Not to suggest using lights all the time as I do not think battery life would cope .. I get about 3 hours out of my Lupines on full power for example.

I do have doubts about whether or not eternal lights will provide "such magic" on the basis that if we all are lit up - whether in car or on bike .. humans will still make daft, but potentially lethal mistakes all the same as they wil simply "acclimatise to the point where this "norm" fails to "satnd out". I hope that makes some sense? :wink:

Quote:
I know one of SS's mantras is equal responsibility for all road users (not necessarily something I agree with but that's another debate), if this is the case won't all vehicles on the road have to be painted in hi-viz colours and have their headlights on constantly? (I refer you to Paul's post RE:visibilty arms race)


Oh - I think and hold myslef responsible for anything I do professionally and in my car and on my bike. My own family and the Swiss family do think likewise on this. I evaluate each drive and ride and try to think about any improvements - especially how whatever I planned to do affected another person on the road. However, since I do not seem to receive cofffee bean signs, curses, BEREEEEPS, and seem to get smiles and waves - can only assume then that I am doing summat right.

Quote:
Maybe you should keep your C+ issues off-site. I'm sure you'll agree with me that inflammatory posts help no-one. Especially in arguments between imovable objects and irresistable forces. Please don't take offence at this, I know you and I disagree on many things and this is not a personal dig, just a polite request.


The family - from last contact with the powers that be at C+ - are no longer treated with hostility. They agree that a certain troll is a problem and they say BANNED means BANNED and they have a brand to consider. We are trying to protect this good name and reputation. Half this family subscribe to the magazine and two of the Swiss youngsters look like "promising hot topics" of the future sport. I think they had a brief mention several issues ago in a Swiss cycling mag.. and briefly referred to as a "name to watch" in "Cylco Sport/CW and C+ itself :lol:

By the way my sister-in-law and her husband were featured in C+ before Mr Farelly's editorship. :wink:

Hence we are trying to protect the name FROM 24/7 TROLLS who do NOT RIDE BIKES and who only post to get some "virtual pat on the back" because they lead an otherwise lonely life.

I do feel very sorry for someone who leads this kind of life and can only suggest that he or she gets out and about and learns to like people in general. I mean that in concerned friendship and as a concerned doctor to whoever it is who lives his or her life on these chatty fora.



To the person concerned and I do mean this in sincerity and friendship - even if you do not see this as I intend or mean..

In your PH profile as "spindrift" - you described yourself as "Cathy Brown - single mum/estate agent in Norwich" I replied to you on PH at the time that you came across from this profile as someone who had suffered some trauma. You even apologised to my Wildy :neko: wife over something you posted to her at the time - which is to yoir credit.

Please - if all this is a result of some deep grief - then please see your doctor who will put you in contact wiith someone who will help you manage your giref and your anger.

I intend this advice with sincerity and concern for a fellow human being. The Swiss family are not as you have misinterpreted and misunderstood - and we certainly had to work har d to emerge from our own black hole of sheer trauma and grief some 16 years or so ago.




The show off and beat my chest bit :lol:

Our two intrepid cyclist starlets to be are based in Switzerland and already won a few teen/ young riders events. "Le Matin" etc tips them highly for the 2012 Games .. they are just 12 and 15 years at the moment.

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Smilies are contagious
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Smily to penny.. penny to pound
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But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 21:11 
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We do have some photos of all the Swiss sporting a full range of tasteful and very "in yer face" gear now on our hoster! :lol:

I hesitate to place on site as I am sure some folk may make effigies :roll:

But basically -you dress per the weather to make yourself NOTICED! :wink:

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 21:29 
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B cyclist wrote:
I can't find an Emoticon showing a pedestrian all lit up... :lol: :lol:

:idea:
:roll:

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 21:38 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
B cyclist wrote:
I can't find an Emoticon showing a pedestrian all lit up... :lol: :lol:

:idea:
:roll:


Oooh! If you can find one.. 8-) 8-) :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or invent one.. ' :wink:

Bet he can! :lol:

Hey ERN! 8-) 8-) 8-) Man of the :bow: wonderful submarinated emoticons!

But :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
If you do find one.. means we' just have to use it :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :lol:

B will no doubt faint in total shock.. :wink: and heaven only knows what it will do to Swiss finances and their "spon and don" account! :rotfl: :shock: :? :shock: :D

Damm - I think "them Swiss nerds" 'll fine me for this.. :roll:

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If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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