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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 00:00 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nigel Havers in Waily wrote:

They are bellgerent .. Foul mouthed and a danger to us all .. but ist not the sheer selfishness of these .. ist the smug self righteousness which accompany it


Nigel Havers ist of course not talking about the normal guy und gal who stiill pedal away in genteel visible refinery in Oxbridge utopia or even our G- --G G- Granville on his errands....

He say

Quote:


Gentility und modesty have been replaced by arrogance und aggression.

Brimming over with hostility und indifferent to those saround them - these louts on bikes think they are above the law. Normal rules about red lights, one way streets are treated with supreme indifference by this new army of Lycra mad maniacs whose every action show their contempt for pedestrian und motorist alike


:shock:

[i]Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Way to go! Nigel - if you lurk on 'ere :lol: You speak your mind for all of normality including the genteel und refined on bikes. :wink:


und this ist witnessed by the bizarre nude ride "to demonstrate how vulnerable a cyclist ist.." That so ... then perhaps a ride sweating it out inf fullest "body armour" und showing real suffering because of need to "protect" against the muppets we want to educate to COAST und not to watching for a speed cam .. may have got the righter response of "poor things .... ist not right to subject them to this in the summer" ;)

He go on to say he even more annoyed by their "greenier than thee conceited self righteousness"

Ja :yesyes: .. we KNOW! I think he lurked somewhere.. :rotfl: or read some of the letters in CW und so weiter :hehe:

Quote:

Their belligerence ist cloaked in the moral superiority. In our politically correct culture - they have turned the bicycle into a badge of envoronmentally awareness which they think frees them from any obligation to conduct themselves with restraint.


Ja .. nude cycling.. :roll: Arrogance on roads und even justifying the red light run as it "get in way of momentum und pedal power."

So .. I was in line of traffic und lights changed this morning. I was just changing to second gear when light change back to red. You could say I lost the momentum of smoothest of geat change und engine deprived of its silkiest purr up to cruise in third gear in urban traffic flowing at steadiest of 26 mph. :roll:

I still had to stop though.. it was a red light. The cyclist almost got run over... He got marroooned in middle of crossing. I am pleased to say he looked scared. :lol:

Quote:

They think because the bike does not emit fumes .. they can treat diver
as "scum"


The irony ist that a green outlook - so fashionable of metropolitan political circles ist meant to be concern for our surroundings

But that ist the opposite.. the boorish cyclising classes in a cocoon of self absorption believe rest of world can go hang themselves.

Much of their environmentalism ist pure posturing. If you did an audit of their lifestyles - you would find they are a lot less green than they claim.


Mad Doc if you remember posed the question on here in soapbox as to whether or not we could live ethically. He concluded that we could not as ist an opportuinity cost somewhere .. fail to buy the cheap goods und those working for peanuts starve. But what ist purchasing power? To us - would not buy the tabloids. To them .. it have purchasing power to stock larder perhaps. Und we judge by our cost of living und not theirs - und ist not necessarily an objective analysis.

I did not use disposable nappy for youngest.. but if I total up cost of the terry towels... the boiling of the Number Two soils und the lower temp wash of the Number Ones.. I still think we balance even stevens on enviro- costs to planet.

Nigel Havers also comments on something which Mad Doc mentioned as a general comment. Nein.. am marrried to a completely Mad Doc und not an well known actor who has been in some enjoyable "relax/entertain mildly" dramas over the years.



Quote:

They go on holidays to places like Africa und Eastern Europe und feel very good about themselves as their planes emit more clouds of nooxious gas than the whole of the jam on the M25!

They do not bother to question whether or not their lycra was made by some child in the Third World or whether or not their bike was made in some seat shop in China.


Ist true.. und how are they made? Lycra und nylon und vinyl .. by products of oil industry... How do these goods get to shops.. by train (powered by polluting diesel powered engines... und then by lorries.. und the shops burn electricity.. ..

You cannot live ethically at all. :wink: Even a candle will "pollute" :wink:


He mention the absurdity of cycling to work .. or walking to tube station .. with limo containing briefcase behind..


Nigel Havers wrote:

I had to share dressing room with actor who insisted his bike could only be safe in the dressing room. As I struggled to get ready each night.. I fought an urge to put knife through the tyres

I am not against cycling. I still possess a bicycle... but I make sure I obey the rules of the road.

That cannot be said of the London cyclists.


At this point he goes off on one about road tax und other taxes all we drivers pay out on fuel und repairs und insurance tax.

He mentions being aghast in disbelief at mother und daughter pedalling through a red light und traffic on green having to serve und brake to avoid them.

Und then he launches into his experience as a pedestrian... und being subjected to four letter words for being on the pavement..

As for lights .. :lol:

Quote:

So many refuse to fit lights - implying again that they are above the law and that motorists and pedestrians alike are obliged to keep their eyes open und avoid these ever so vulnerable road users who carry on in their own sweet "sod everyone" way.


He add that despite paying less overall in taxes ... these cyclists chain up their bikes wherever they like und do not consider anyone else.

Quote:

The place average Chelsea Tractor driver in shade when it come to display of bad driving


:shock: :shock: :shock: :? :? :lol:

:rotfl:

I think I like that line.. :wink:

Quote:

When a cyclist kicks und bangs on my car whilst I am waiting to turn or for light to change.. I yearn for Edwardian England when men were thrown into jail fro swearing


:rotfl: I think he has point though.. yob culture ist very much root of all ills whether using two or four wheels.

Quote:

It was probably a calmer und saner world. Certainly not one where you fear a broken limb each time one of these hoodlums comes into view.

Cyclists have certainly changed over the years - und not for the better


I think really - you could say that about most things.. und we always seem to return to the tried und true und tested .. returning to singing times tables, artificial phonics ... we always end up looking back to what Grandpapa did.. und find he was right after all :roll: :wink:

Nein ..ist not a sign of the wrinklies setting in.. it happen to be reality.
:wink:

Nigel conclude his interesting rant in Waily Wail und he said in Indy first! :wink:

Quote:

Moral superiority does not lie in boasting about green awareness while marauding around the streets .

It really blongs to those who consider the needs of others und of the wider society - even if they choose to travel inside a car.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 19:30 
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The government always focuses on putting the motorist at blame. Today I saw a pedestrian walk out in front of a car doing around 30mph without looking. Luckily the motorist was looking, but if the pedestrian had been hit who would have taken the blame?

Similar case. My mum was driving along the road when a cyclist cycled across the road without looking? I wonder who would have won the argument there.

And what about cyclists who ride about without lights or high visibility clothing at night time? We've contacted the police on numerous occasions telling them to threaten newsagents with action if their employees don't take the right measures, but they don't give a toss!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 13:58 
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sotonsteve wrote:
The government always focuses on putting the motorist at blame. Today I saw a pedestrian walk out in front of a car doing around 30mph without looking. Luckily the motorist was looking, but if the pedestrian had been hit who would have taken the blame?


It's funny, almost every day motorists pull out in front of my bike while I'm doing around 30mph without looking. Lucky that I'm looking, or I'd be dead most days! I've had a though, the ped who stepped out into moving traffic was probably a BMW driver who forgot where he parked his car :20:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 14:19 
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Bewildered wrote:
It's funny, almost every day motorists pull out in front of my bike while I'm doing around 30mph without looking. Lucky that I'm looking, or I'd be dead most days! I've had a though, the ped who stepped out into moving traffic was probably a BMW driver who forgot where he parked his car :20:


I assume you mean a pedal cycle (not motorbike). 30mph is pretty fast on a bike. I wonder if car drivers don't see you or whether they simply don't expect that sort of speed. Also harder to judge speed of a bike, I'd imagine, than a larger vehicle. Poor judgement of speed and distance is a common failing, no? Perhaps there is no realistic alternative except for you to assume the worst - that your approach will not be accurately assessed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 14:24 
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Sorry for not making it clear, I do mean a "pedal cycle". When I cycle I assume all motorists are idiots. I know this is not true, but this line of thinking keeps you alive.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 14:35 
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Bewildered wrote:
Sorry for not making it clear, I do mean a "pedal cycle". When I cycle I assume all motorists are idiots. I know this is not true, but this line of thinking keeps you alive.


No need to apologise. I was 99.9% sure but thought I'd better voice the assumption just in case. I was slightly surprised that you cycle around at 30mph all over the place. No reason why you shouldn't, but I think you are wise to ride as though all motorists are idiots. I don't believe they actually are, but I do think there is a fair bit of scope, at that speed, for even reasonably good drivers to be taken by surprise (which may make them appear to be idiots).


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 15:19 
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I am not very familiar with the performance of pedal cycles. Could you tell me if the brakes and tyre grip are adequate to stop rapidly from 30mph.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 15:28 
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malcolmw wrote:
I am not very familiar with the performance of pedal cycles. Could you tell me if the brakes and tyre grip are adequate to stop rapidly from 30mph.


I'd hazard a guess that the variation is as great between different types of bicycle as it is between the different types of motor vehicle. Road surface, incline, condition and weather may also be factors.

Assuming Bewildered is a competent cyclist I would also assume he/she would be able to assess whether he/she could stop rapidly from 30mph, if he/she couldn't then one must assume that they are either foolish, ignorant or simply deliberately reckless.

I think I'll assume the former rather than any of the three latter!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 15:34 
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Actually the brakes on road/racing bikes are very poor, so you have to be ultra aware at high speeds. As for tyres, if you are willing to part with a little extra money, they are very very good. Pumped up to 120psi and you can take some corners faster than cars. I will admit to running into the back of a car or two when they have had to jam there breaks on, or in the case of the WVM who didn't have any break lights, but these have been at lower speed and haven't resulted in any damage to car/bike/person.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 15:46 
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Try Koolstop m(Salmon?) pads, apparently they are very good.

Disc brakes are starting to filter down to road bikes too, not convinced as to how effective they will be though, unless you run 3" slicks at 40 psi!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 15:51 
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malcolmw wrote:
Could you tell me if the brakes and tyre grip are adequate to stop rapidly from 30mph.

one doesn't need to stop rapidly from any speed, one needs to be able to stop in the distance on can see to be clear.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 16:05 
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I don't really mind the brakes being poor. When I used to ride a mountain bike, I used to find that the wheels locked up v. easily, which to be honest was more frightening than the road bike where you feel like the bike isn't going to stop. (I've been known to close my eyes, only to open them and find that I'm still alive!)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 16:18 
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johnsher wrote:
malcolmw wrote:
Could you tell me if the brakes and tyre grip are adequate to stop rapidly from 30mph.

one doesn't need to stop rapidly from any speed, one needs to be able to stop in the distance on can see to be clear.


Whilst I agree with the sentiment of what you say, the reality can be that someone justs walks in front of you. As a motorist (or a cyclist) one can be very aware of pedestrians on a pavement and be prepared for the unexpected, but if one was really going to be able to stop in time for the genuine "leaper" we would all travel at 5mph when there pedestrians on the pavement.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:28 
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prof beard wrote:
Whilst I agree with the sentiment of what you say, the reality can be that someone justs walks in front of you. As a motorist (or a cyclist) one can be very aware of pedestrians on a pavement and be prepared for the unexpected, but if one was really going to be able to stop in time for the genuine "leaper" we would all travel at 5mph when there pedestrians on the pavement.


We can't eliminate the risk of a "leaper" but we can and should seek to reduce the risk to a level that gives us reasonable certainty that we can avoid hitting a pedestrian who steps into the road without looking. Typically, that's done by: watching the pedestrian carefully (particularly if a child or elderly) for signs of intent; reducing speed; moving to (or across if traffic permits) the centre of the road. The last is particulalrly important because, whilst a pedestrian may incautiously step into the road without looking, he/she is unlikely to carry on crossing blind. The extra couple of feet space we give by taking a central (or offside) road position is, I think, a critical defensive driving measure.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:39 
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Observer wrote:
We can't eliminate the risk of a "leaper" but we can and should seek to reduce the risk to a level that gives us reasonable certainty that we can avoid hitting a pedestrian who steps into the road without looking.


National figures appear to indicate that this system is highly effective, with only around 1 in 500 such incidents ending in a fatality, despite the 'official' risk factor of: '50% die at 30mph impact'.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:57 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Observer wrote:
We can't eliminate the risk of a "leaper" but we can and should seek to reduce the risk to a level that gives us reasonable certainty that we can avoid hitting a pedestrian who steps into the road without looking.


National figures appear to indicate that this system is highly effective, with only around 1 in 500 such incidents ending in a fatality, despite the 'official' risk factor of: '50% die at 30mph impact'.


I know from previous discussions, Paul, that you believe (and I agree) that Space is the critical component of COAST that delivers time to react. In the pedestrian context, apart from giving a driver more time to react (and often better vision), it also (equally importantly) gives the pedestrian time to react. A double whammy.

I am sure much good could be done by a programme of road safety messages emphasising the importance of 'Space'.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:36 
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Observer wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
Observer wrote:
We can't eliminate the risk of a "leaper" but we can and should seek to reduce the risk to a level that gives us reasonable certainty that we can avoid hitting a pedestrian who steps into the road without looking.


National figures appear to indicate that this system is highly effective, with only around 1 in 500 such incidents ending in a fatality, despite the 'official' risk factor of: '50% die at 30mph impact'.


I know from previous discussions, Paul, that you believe (and I agree) that Space is the critical component of COAST that delivers time to react. In the pedestrian context, apart from giving a driver more time to react (and often better vision), it also (equally importantly) gives the pedestrian time to react. A double whammy.

I am sure much good could be done by a programme of road safety messages emphasising the importance of 'Space'.


I'm now a massive 'fan' of Stephen Haley's 'risk model' shown on: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/sss.html

So long as those three factors remain 'in balance' risk is controlled and can be minimised. When one or more of them get out of line then risk can go through the roof.

Steve's describing it as a three legged stool. If any leg fails there's a problem, and making one leg shorter is no help at all.

I also believe that Steve's risk model is closely similar to the risk model my subconscious runs (apparently all by itself!).

[edited to fix 'stronger' to 'shorter' which my original intention]

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Last edited by SafeSpeed on Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:19, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:55 
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Sorry this may be obvious/stupid, but what does COAST stand for/represent? :?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 13:04 
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Bewildered wrote:
Sorry this may be obvious/stupid, but what does COAST stand for/represent? :?


(C)oncentration (somtimes also (C)ourtesy and (C)onsideration)
(O)bservation
(A)nticipation
(S)pace
(T)ime to react (sometimes also allowing adequate Time for journey etc)

It is an acronym for the critical components of safe driving (on public roads).

I like to see it as a logical process or system for safe driving where 'Concentration' and 'Observation' are the driver sensory inputs; 'Anticipation' is the driver sensory output, 'Space' is the driver physical output and 'Time to react' is the system output.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 14:45 
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Well that makes sense, pity there are so many people on the roads that think it means:


(C)omatose
(O)blivious
(A)nger
(S)queeze
(T)hreaten


This goes for cyclists as well as the motorists :x

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