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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:21 
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This leaflet can be picked up at any Bike Week event and is viewable on the site which Ted referred to in his post on the Bike Week topic.


Very useful leaflet in that it aims to make drivers and riders more tolerant of each other 8-)

Most of it I mentioned in my combination of notes from a police training session and CycleCraft :wink:

I have scanned the leaflets - but find on preview that it seems to take up huge chunk of the screen - even when I tried to reduce the size of the image.

Two pages

:listenup: WHAT CYCLISTS WOULD LIKE DRIVERS TO KNOW

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:listenup: WHAT DRIVERS CAN DO TO HELP THE CYCLIST

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:listenup: WHAT MOTORISTS WOULD LIKE THE CYCLISTS TO KNOW AND DO :wink:
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:listenup: :listenup: :listenup: :wink: [i] WHAT THE CYCLSITS CAN DO - AND REALLY DO :lol: :wink:

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Collectively - we all posted similar when debating a thread raised by Gatsobait in the "Improve Driving Skills" sub-forum :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:40 
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That's excellent, but there's once sentence in there that REALLY winds me up:

'drivers have the major responsibility to take care'

BOLLOCKS!

Responsibility is shared and equal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:56 
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The leaflet is a step in the right direction though. I agree that everyone on the road whether on foot/bike/on hoof or in car has a major responsibility to themselves to take care. But then we are of the "old school and not the pee-cee one... :roll:

Ted's sister (both of them with their own kids) apparently went down to the Bolton Bike show yesterday. She said that only kids were riding around the obtacle course - but thought the stunt guy was very impressive. Most of the shoppers were not remotely interested and parking was the same as always - difficult

She was annoyed with the DJ though - who apparently kept going on about ditching the car for a bike.

DJ at Bike Fest wrote:

We want to get all them cars off the road!


:roll: :roll: I did ask Ted's sister when she phoned me if she noted any reaction - but she said everyone was too busy shopping to notice but that the lady collecting for the Fred Dibnah Memorial Fund was cringing at this.

She noted with some irony per her call to us about it that the DJ platform was one big publicity drive for a local bike shop (NOT Halfords!). Bike shop she says specialises mostly in racing roadies costing thousands and not the budget Apollos, Raleighs and Mongooses usually stacked in Halfords :wink:

She apparently splashed out on a Trek there last year

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:09 
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In Gear wrote:
The leaflet is a step in the right direction though. I agree that everyone on the road whether on foot/bike/on hoof or in car has a major responsibility to themselves to take care. But then we are of the "old school and not the pee-cee one... :roll:


Actually I think that it's a giant leap in the right direction. (And didn't intend to imply otherwise.)

The whole 'individual responsibility' thing, though, is a road safety cornerstone, and should NEVER be disturbed. It is absolutely irreplacable.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:35 
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Absolutely agree about individual responsibility. We are each responsible for our own actions whatever we do in life. We seem to spend half our time making excuses for other people.

Have another leaflet from the CTC - but each time I put it through preview after pasting it - it seemed "enormous"

But for all that - handy phot of what is meant by secondary and primary positioning :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:29 
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In Gear wrote:
:listenup: WHAT MOTORISTS WOULD LIKE THE CYCLISTS TO KNOW AND DO :wink:
Image


.....errr.. no.2 .... eh ? :?

safe...speed.... ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 14:14 
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In Gear wrote:
:listenup: WHAT MOTORISTS WOULD LIKE THE CYCLISTS TO KNOW AND DO :wink:

That entire page can be re-read replacing "cyclist" with "micra driver". Especially 4 5 and 6

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 15:11 
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Ziltro :rotfl:

I had not thought of that one. Applies to the chav with the huge speakers in the customised pratmobile as well :popcorn:

By the way - has anyone noticed the fairly interesting line in the CTC pamphlet I later posted up. Sorry it's a bit on the big side.. I did reduce the size .. but it did not reduce as much as I thought... :roll:

Think it says a lot to the credit of all drivers :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 18:46 
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Came across a cyclist the other day, wanted to turn left and the guy behind me didn't seem to understand why I had slowed down to the cyclist's speed. I didn't want to have to go around him, because I was turning left really soon, so I slowed down, sat a bit off the bike, and got tailgated by this guy behind me, who obviously didnt realise I was waiting for the cyclist to get away from the junction... That probably doesn't make sense... But it shows that some people are unable to think more than one car ahead...

I noticed this again one day when I had a mate in the car with me, he was getting angry because the car in front slowed down, to avoid the car in front of him who was indicating left... Somehow my mate didn't see this car indicating left from the passenger seat, but I had, and I had anticipated he was going to slow down... Mate goes to me, "why is he slowing down," to which I replied, "to avoid the car in front," "oh right." Although, he hasn't started driving yet, so I sort of understand why he might not have noticed that... Just shows you how much anticipation and observation skills get better as you learn to drive and start driving alone.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 19:44 
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mikes1988 wrote:
Came across a cyclist the other day, wanted to turn left and the guy behind me didn't seem to understand why I had slowed down to the cyclist's speed. I didn't want to have to go around him, because I was turning left really soon, so I slowed down, sat a bit off the bike, and got tailgated by this guy behind me, who obviously didnt realise I was waiting for the cyclist to get away from the junction... That probably doesn't make sense... But it shows that some people are unable to think more than one car ahead...

I noticed this again one day when I had a mate in the car with me, he was getting angry because the car in front slowed down, to avoid the car in front of him who was indicating left... Somehow my mate didn't see this car indicating left from the passenger seat, but I had, and I had anticipated he was going to slow down... Mate goes to me, "why is he slowing down," to which I replied, "to avoid the car in front," "oh right." Although, he hasn't started driving yet, so I sort of understand why he might not have noticed that... Just shows you how much anticipation and observation skills get better as you learn to drive and start driving alone.


Mike - I see a potentially skilled driver starting to blosson within you. Keep it up .. You make me proud to think there are youngsters out there like MikeF and yourself and if I am allowed to have some paternal pride ... my own eldest :wink:

PS - IG - good call on this thread :clap:

Blimey ... I think we have a better pro -cycliing campaign going on one 'ere than the militia sites :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :rotfl:

I think we have the edge on safety and good practice :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 22:17 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
That's excellent, but there's once sentence in there that REALLY winds me up:

'drivers have the major responsibility to take care'

BOLLOCKS!

Responsibility is shared and equal.


Is there a link to the SS page which explains the equal responsibility thing?

I've always thought that the responsibility (at least to others) should be based on the size and power of the vehicle you drive/ride, hence there being more stringent tests for HGV drivers than car drivers?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 22:36 
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Peyote wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
That's excellent, but there's once sentence in there that REALLY winds me up:

'drivers have the major responsibility to take care'

BOLLOCKS!

Responsibility is shared and equal.


Is there a link to the SS page which explains the equal responsibility thing?


No. I don't believe that I have written it up. I think that may well be a serious omission. At it's simplest it's the rule: Never trust anyone else to ensure your own safety. I'll see about getting it written up. Thanks.

Peyote wrote:
I've always thought that the responsibility (at least to others) should be based on the size and power of the vehicle you drive/ride, hence there being more stringent tests for HGV drivers than car drivers?


I think we're working with slightly different definitions of 'responsibility'.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 23:05 
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Quote:
No. I don't believe that I have written it up. I think that may well be a serious omission. At it's simplest it's the rule: Never trust anyone else to ensure your own safety. I'll see about getting it written up. Thanks.

Wrong thread I know, but I always apply this to comments from passengers, when exiting a difficult junction or similar situation.
When a passenger says it is OK to go, you have to be able to trust their judgement, OR CHECK IT YOURSELF!

I have only ever trusted one or two passengers to give me the thumbs up - and they in turn trusted my abilities to be able to perform to their expectations.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 09:50 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
At it's simplest it's the rule: Never trust anyone else to ensure your own safety.


Yeah, that makes sense. When I was learning to drive my driving instructor always said "Drive as if everyone on the road is an idiot". He never gave me an answer when I asked if that included me!

SafeSpeed wrote:
I think we're working with slightly different definitions of 'responsibility'.


I think that you're talking about responsibility for your own safety, whereas I was thinking of it as responsibility for others safety. The former I think must be equal, the latter is bound to change.

Interesting how you viewed the booklet one way and I another!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 21:12 
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Peyote wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
At it's simplest it's the rule: Never trust anyone else to ensure your own safety.


Yeah, that makes sense. When I was learning to drive my driving instructor always said "Drive as if everyone on the road is an idiot". He never gave me an answer when I asked if that included me!


Only too right mate. No one can be perfect - we have to always evaluate to improve. :wink: And this applies to riding bikes as well :wink:

Quote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
I think we're working with slightly different definitions of 'responsibility'.


I think that you're talking about responsibility for your own safety, whereas I was thinking of it as responsibility for others safety. The former I think must be equal, the latter is bound to change.

Interesting how you viewed the booklet one way and I another!



I consider my own safety on bike first. I want to stay alive. I want to see grandchildren on my knee and indulge them. :lol:

I consider my safety and that of my passengers first when driving. I do not want to dent my car and I consider my family as the most precious thing in my life - far above any material property

I thus consider other people on the road as I do not want to harm them or my own much loved ... and I really love my wife and our kids - would go through the proverbial fire,water and hell to protect them.

I view my actions in life as being responsible and accountable. Responsibility for oneself .. evaluating how a driving or riding plan of action affected another person .. does - in effect - mean not trusting another fopr your own safety ... but rather negotiating with them and planning your reaction to their action to ensure your safety and to diffuse any danger to all.

Perhaps it sounds a bit disjointed ... but what the heck. :wink:

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Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 00:31 
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My take on the whole thing --


I have been a cyclist (Very stropy one in my time) and i now expect to see drivers ( i do it) give bikes a set distance when overtaking - i look at the bike and imagine the biker stopping dead and falling flat on the road - i ask myself the question - if this hapened , could i pass by and miss him -because my daughter and grandaughter ride - if i passed them and they fell off and i hit them could i live with with it - and then i ask ---it could be a mate or anyone ------drive like the cyclist is youre grandaughter --PLEASE

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:34 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
Wrong thread I know, but I always apply this to comments from passengers, when exiting a difficult junction or similar situation.
When a passenger says it is OK to go, you have to be able to trust their judgement, OR CHECK IT YOURSELF!

I have only ever trusted one or two passengers to give me the thumbs up - and they in turn trusted my abilities to be able to perform to their expectations.


You'll know then Ernest that a paseenger gets a different perspective from the driver and can't see if a potential manoeuvre will work, e.g. getting through a gap. However they can be a useful source for spotting something the driver can't see but it's still the driver's call.


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