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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 02:36 
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Unfortunately I don't carry a camera much on the way to work... though I should!

Re the illegally positioned police cars, they're usually waiting at a particular set of traffic lights - as they watch cars sail across our flow on a red light. Ever seen a booking? Nope. I feel that there may be a station nearby and they're booking off (8.30/8.45 am). Once I even saw someone nearly sideswipe a police car as it pulled off. Police showed indifference.*

* This, I have to correct myself, is London City Police. The people who convicted no-one for road-marking offences (ASL's, cycle lanes, etc), but in one day fined 99.5% of cyclists breaking road laws that they saw.

Someone mentioned revolution earlier... what would be the reaction if motor vehicles had that type of fine rate for ALL offences (not just speeding) that were committed, because officers had specifically been placed there for that purpose. (no cautions or 'talking to' for the 99.5%, pure fines)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 07:36 
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But nankety poopers Liebchen - we drivers do have persons fining for all sort of silly things.. they are called pratnerships und do it by remote control by way of camera on a road with a good safety record in the first place (why they can claim "oooh Loook! No injuries... Must be the yellow doo-dah! :roll:")

Und then there ist ANPR van ... und a lot of police tied up in this when some of the traf cars are equipped with such a doo-dah und could probably nab many more people more than the 10 stopped in one area. Though as I read the Bolton paper in question.. they did target in an area where I would imagine a lot do not bother with such trifling matters as paying for VED und insurance :roll: So perhaps I should be so scathing about GMP after all :wink:

Und there are those funny people who do not smile und prowl around looking for some hapless driver to fine because bumper bar protrude by a mm over the bay ... or he or she ist one second late from the shop.. or even start to issue ticket as driver stop und walk to cash machine to buy pay und display. (He try this out on Mad Doc... Mad Doc marched off with said ticket to "Parking Shop" around the block... It get cancelled in record time :hehe:

As for the Met fining a lot of cyclists over a two week period in London... I suspect a lot of people .. you know those strange people on two legs who have to leap out of way on regular basis on a flagged area which ist their only sanctuary from those magnificent men (und ladies) on und in those wheely machines .. might just have complained about all this. Und not being able to cross a road on a little green man because some muppet cannot be bothered to ease off his pedalling power because he think he in "ToB" or in the London bit of the 2007 Tour! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Clunk!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 08:43 
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nanki_poo wrote:
Ah! I just caught on in the re-reading of details that this is a northern forum.

Er, I hope not. I thought it was nationwide. FWIW, I live further south than Dover - so that's got to be well south of the Watford Gap. Although I work mainly from home, I do get to go north to the Midlands or inside the M25 once in a while :wink:

I've noticed the difference in driving style, and once explored that by starting a thread that asked whether regional stereotypes were valid. The biggest differences seem to be between rural areas and the big cities - and I suspect that Conrad King (a motoring psychologist) hit the nail on the head during an episode of (IIRC) 5th Gear in which he was coaching road rage out of a very aggressive driver. Aggression partly stems from the depersonalisation of other drivers. For most, it's much harder to be aggressive toward a real person. So, take away the depersonalisation, and road rage becomes much less likely.

In cities, you are more likely to see other road users as objects: the vehicles in which they travel; in rural areas you are more likely to see the driver as the road user. This leads to a greater likelihood of depersonalisation in city environments - and for most it's much easier to vent your frustrations, anger, etc. on a depersonalised object than on a fellow human being.

Unfortunately, we can't clone Conrad and have him travel once a month with everybody - so I'm not sure quite how we might overcome urban road-rage. However, I'm convinced that would be a much more worthy goal than cudgeling motorists into driving below some arbitrary limit!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 22:23 
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CW carries a comment on this story. Like Wildy and the rest of our combined and extended families - CTC welcomes this as a bosoost to focus on training for safe cycling.

However, this cost is not ONE year's worth - but spread over three years :shock: :? - which rather brings us back full circle to Wildy's initial criticism that £15m is not really that much cash and soon swallowed in admin and other sundries. Like the booster for schools, NHS and even the police and fire services - this cash will be swallowed without trace into the red tape costs :furious:


Not being a kill joy - but sticking my neck out yet again and openly questioning whether this initiative will receive the full £15m or whether 75% will be swallowed in unneccessary red tape :roll: :roll: :roll: :banghead:

CW stated that the sum should provide training for 100,000 children. Fine.. but if you work on secondary schools having a role of between 800 and 1200 children and all their many feeder primaries having roles of of around 300 /500 each - this does not give training to all children. Added to that - as I previously pointed out - there's the cost of training the trainers :shock: £15m for traiing over three years and £15 m on cyclel paths then is not going to stretch that far. Nor will it buy cycle paths to every school :roll: :roll:

OK - so the government has doubled its original spend over the next three years. As CW points out - it's still far below that spent by rest of Europe. :roll:

Even if you add in the £32m spent collectively by the local authorities. By the way - despite these negative comments - if any adult wishes to try commuting by bike and is worried about training and required skills - then do check out if any training is offered for free by your borough council and get your council tax money's worth! :wink: Admittedly not all offer FREE courses but some do.. and Sheffield, Darlington (and the other "beacon towns") and I believe Manchester, Salford, Sefton and Liverpool itself all offer free cycling training to adults. Do check local government websites to see if anything is offered for you.

To browsers and lurkers in particular :wink: Do not misunderstand or let any prejudice get in the way of fair opinion. Most of us here want and applaud an initiatve which instils the ethos of road user safety in our young from an early age - and the earlier the better :wink: We also want people to embrace cycling and enjoy the experience.

However, we have to accept that cycling is not everyone's "cup of tea", that some live byond reasonable commute and that some just do not have the stamina anyway for a variety of reasons. We also have to accept that huge numbers commuting will inevitably mean a tightening of rules in the name of health and safety. This does not mean wearing helmets - but abiding by the same rules that drivers abide by. It could also mean that cycling speed limits could be set :wink: and that cyclists wil be facing the same sort of fines and penalties as drivers should cycling numbers escalate to current car use numbers.

I think I am trying to say that we view cycling with rose tinted specs because, London apart, provinces see fewer cyclists commuting . London colleagues have tightened rules because of volume, In line with increased volumes - we will have to enforce rules to keep things safe. :roll: Hopefully :wink: with - cough - discretion :wink:

No one disputes the cash is a boost - but if you really look deeply into it..

nowhere near enough and much more sensible investment is required before we even touch finger tips with mainland Europe on this

We also have to allow for choice and accept that all may not want to cycle nor even have the health to do so for any number of reasons and we must always keep this in mind.

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