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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 01:44 
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Simon Edge calls it

:listenup: THE CURSE OF THE CYCLING MANIACS

I am sure the cycling militants will have been filled with manic vitriol - - which just makes me think of a rather OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-ERRRRRRRR MISSUSS - camp Carry On :rotfl:

OoooooH ... anecdote.. anecdote.. oooh ... tut tutty tut tut ...sinful....l sinful sinful... :roll:

Simon Edge in <Express> pages 22-23 wrote:

On my way to work last week I was crossing a one way street where a queue of cars were waiting at the lights. The walk sign was on green but the cyclists ind the dedicated cycle lane whiz through with no regard to the rules. I looked left to check it was safe to cross - and was nearly nown down by a bike which made an illegal turn.

I heard an angry intake of breath from all around as this lycra-clad lout pedalled across my right of way Another pal was so angry when one ran over his foot that he kicked the wheels of the bicycle. Only then did the cyclist stop and threatened my pal with red ecked and faced violence.


Hmmm. We seem to hear more and more similar stories. Less here - but then we are country folk.. and we make allowances for all holiday makers who look at the scenery more than the roads :roll:

However, the reporter is echoing the views of a great many who tell us of their city adventures down the local pub. The enemy, surprisingly, is not the car any more ...which can kill if driven very carelessly - but the bicycle which approaches silently .. on pavements.. and disregards all red lights and pedestrian crossings.. and medium to seriously injury and on odd occasions even kill.

When Nigel Havers famously exploded in the Indie and the Waily - novelist Will Self (never read his books.. no intention of reading them.. name whether real or pseudonym says much to me :wink: ) wrote to a London paper that as a cyclist he

Quote:
has a right to flout the law and the Highway Code


:shock: :? Oh.. meanwhile on the safe speed site.. people are debating the Highway Code and a lot of us seem to think obeying this code and applying COAST - will SAVE LIVES!

Not when people write drivel like Mr SELF-ish! :x

Mr Angry from Sheffield (hallmarks of U-NO-OOO) raged that

Quote:
Mr Havers should spend a bit of time on a bike surrounded by one and half ton murder machines driven by people like him He might then understand why cyclists are forced onto pavements or need to escape by jumping red lights


:shock: :?

Such logic leaves me speechless with shock at the sheer illogical nonsense. Especially when this same person (and let's face it .. he's been on sheffield's site :wink: ) whines about cycle lanes, sensible changes to the Highway Code, and that bikes are "traffic innit". The last point that bicycles are part of the traffic .. no one here denies this. But we say that this cycling traffic has to obey the same road rules as everyone else and a dollop of COAST for all who use the road is much needed. :wink:

Mr Edge :lol: 8-) continues .. Ooo-er ... mind that laddering lycra now :o :wink:

(Like the wording.. :o :lol: 8-) FASHION!


Bowie song wrote:
fashion.. beep - beep 8-) - Oooh yeah- fashion ..


greener than thee. :roll:

(because I fear for some .. not green issues but a desire to be seen as "with it" .. this sort ride a bike as badly as they drive their other fashion icons.. the 4 x.. the big beamer... not really cyclists are they? :roll:


Quote:

The growing fashion for cycling is undoubtedly good for the environment. In theory, it should be a sign of a more civilised society which all should welcome


True.. but as he then says..

Quote:

The reality is a long way from the Holy Communion which John Major tried to invoke as a society at peace with itself. As visitors to the "Weekly Gripe" website make clear - this new breed of cyclists are making live a misery for everyone else.


:lol: :lol: :lol: The Gripe Site.....:rotfl:

Simon - if you lurk - you should have looked on C+ first :rotfl: and on here :rotfl: for the definitive view of how to ride a bike and drive in a safety led way. :wink:

On this Gripe site - he quotes.

Pat the Pedestrian wrote:

I reently started walking to work and it's the most stressful part of my day. I am forever worried about colliding with cyclists who are where they should not be.. on the pavement

They are inconsiderate and do not think they should slow down at all.



another on the site wrote:

I was hit by a bike and broke my elbow when I fell


and

Express reader via e-mail to letters page]

Most cyclists seem to be a law unto themselves - using pavements at unrecorded SPEEDS with disregard to pedestrians, traffic lights and anything requiring them to stop [/quote]

Simon Edge wonders if these people exaggerate .. Ken Livingstone has been running a campaign to get people on bikes.... but no mention of the rules of the road. A spokesman agreed RLJ etc were illegal but insisted a minority did so..

Hmmmm! Witness the hand wringing out pourings and shoutings elsewhere by a handful of these people - all day.. every day.. the minute you even suggest a cyclist breaks any law.

Contrast this with the leaflet IG posted up from his patch. :wink: Darlington.. BEACON CYCLING TOWN behind that one :wink:

So.. given the spokesman claiming it was a "minority" - Express despatched reporters armed with cameras across UK. As they monitored three major junctions in London for one hour - they discovered that... drivers stopped at the lights.. and observed 26 cyclists obey the red light, 33 rid through on red and 8 use the pavement instead. In short 61% blatantly disobeyed a basic road rule at a busy junction in the rush hour. Not 5 in the morning.. but 9 in the morning. :roll:

Lord Stoddart (ind Labour) feels so strongly about the breakdown of a social code that he wants rules tightening up.

[quote="Lord Stoddart wrote:

Pedestrians are given short shrift. Some cyclists are considerate and obey the road rules - but Too many want all of the privileges and none of the costs


Whoops.. M'Lord .. you'll have the internet trollster gunning for you there :shock:

we did warn that cyclotopia brings about NEW rules :wink:

Home Office Minister Baroness Scotland made it clear to his Lordship thaat "cycling on the pavement is an offence under S72 of the Highway Act 1873 and informs him that they introduced the £30 fixed penalty to deter this :roll:

Pity then they do not bring in a reg on clothing as Lord Stoddart wants and a GATSO :twisted: to cop 'em at then ... :roll: Use the money to improve cycling facilties ... what a novel idea .. :wink: Join the club cyclists! Cyclotopia - eh?

As yet - Home Office does not collect figures for cycling offences as they do for drivers.

Express wrote:

Plenty of anecdoctal evidence abounds as to cyclists breaking laws under officers noses with apparent impunity


Kevin Delaney in <Express> wrote:

Whether we like it or not rank and file officers have abdicated interest in road safety and traffic enforcement. They make different priorities


Mr Delaney suggests handing over responsibilty to councils who would have a financial interest in handing out fines. :shock:

told 'ya. :wink: . they'll find another way to get cash now drivers are drying out as a cash cow and more milk to be had from increased lycra clad brigade :wink:
[i] cyclotopia :banghead: :banghead:


Quite rightly Mr Delaney argues that bikes should be registered - which would benefit cyclists as decent bikes are not exactly cheap - and this would hold renegade riders to account :clap: :twisted:

OY>>>> he's been lurkin'

Quote:

He suggests lessons could be included in the price of a new bike to a new rider in the same way as a new biker has to complete Compulsory Basic Training .


Lot of responsible cyclists out there - but like awful drivers - the awful cyclists stand out and tar the rest.

We want safe cycling and less of the ones who give cycling a bad name.. couriers who see pavements and as their personal domain


All this strikes a cord with Andy Shrimpton - bloke behind "STOP AT RED" campaign. (discussed already here :wink: )

The guy owns a bike shop in York and was knocked off his bike last week by a careless driver. He reckons that the lycra louts are creating hostility with motorists and this is adding to the problems and KSIs which are increasing.

Express has photos galore in the piece of cyclists flouting the law

Edited to change title slightly as found some replies to this in Express and other papers. (Express had a poll yesterday as to whether readers thought cyclists should be fined. Result published tomorrow.) :wink:

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Last edited by Mad Moggie on Wed Jul 26, 2006 19:46, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 02:05 
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Express carries the tragic story of some one killed by a pavement cyclist. Not an anecdote.. paper when called can back it.


But even so incident happened last March - St Austell, Cornwall. Chap was preparing to go on his hols. He was about to get into the taxi when he realised he left his sun glasses and went back for them. As he came out of his garden gate.. cyclist - young man - collided with him. On the pavement. The man died 4 days later from his injuries. The cyclist was also hospitalised but recovered. He was interviewed by the police and his file has been forwarded to CPS who are considering charging the rider with "involuntary manslaughter".

Neighbours say he would ride on the pavements at "speed" :shock: regularly and "was an accident waiting to happen" Nobody thought this would happen though.

His family want they cyclist to answer in court . They think cyclists do not realise how dangerous their riding can be to pedestrians - especially on a pavement.

bereaved family wrote:

They seem to have this idea that only a car travelling at speed can kill - when anything travelling at speed, used carelessly and in this case - illegally on a pavement can kill

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 20:04 
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This letter appeared in last week's "MEN" and was backing karen sutton's letter (separate thread) in a reply to a reader suggesting cyclists should have different road rules to the rest and be allowed to ride on pavements.


Am against pavement cycling on the basis that bikes and people don't mix... and last year - pavement cyclist squeezed past me whilst I walked past some gas works. I fell into the trench and needed stitches. :shock: at the time. It was painful .. could not drive.. had walking stick.. could not even summon strength to stir my own tea.

[small=9](well - admit .. was milking that one as Wildy was fussing over me [/small] :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: )

letter by D Young of Didsbury published 20 July - MEN wrote:

M Alderson of Stockport says that some local authorities should allow cyclists to ride on pavements. However, the Highway Code is very explicit on the matter in Section 54. Pavement cycling is ILLEGAL!

Pedestrians ought to be able to use the pavements without looking out for the lycra clad.

As for the argument that cyclists "feel unsafe on the road" - I have seen them ride on the pavement when the road is empty.

Designated cycleways are very much needed . However, I do appreciate that suitable land is scarce in our overcrowded cities.


Agree - answer is to narrow the carriageway with a bit of paint and reduce the speed limit :roll: . Does not help any road user really :furious: Admit that on older built up areas - bound to be a problem - but surely they could design the brand new builds better. :?

Again voice of reason - and I will say the letters posted up by IG from both C+ and CW mag recently symbolise the greater number. By this I mean that, like drivers - cyclists find themselves branded by the same numpty and plain stupid mind-set who cause and catalyse most horrors on our roads.

However.. read the next batch and bite tongues.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 22:58 
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Meanwhile in the "Express" cyclist from Chesterfield whines that "drivers force cyclists onto pavements"

Sorry? :? :shock: :shock: :shock: In one breath rthese people very rightly say they have a right to share the road... comdem drivers who may park a wheel on a pavement to allow traffic to flow more freely on a road (including cyclists :wink: ) Then say they should be allowed to ride on pavements as well .. yet say condemn shared paths .. :shock: :?

Methinks then that the charge of

Quote:

of wanting all the privileges and none of the costs


Is justified. I would also add that some of these people want none of the normal responsibilities of using the roads. based on this sort of absurd ranting.

This lady called "Joyce" claims that she respects the Highway Code and even acknoweges

Quote:
some folk are "louts" so how they travel.



Oh yes.. Wildy had feline claws out when she arrived home this evening. Two chav ladettes provoked her wrath. They clambered over a metal barrier on a 40 mph dual carriageway (opposite a pub) and Wildy slowed and waved them across the road. Instead of politely nodding - these pig ignorant individuals hurled abuse and banged on the bonnet of the car. Our youngest awoke from slumbers and the rogues were not impressed either. Not much point dialling 999(hands free of course..) Wildy simply calmly and politely asked them to cross the road before someone ran them over. She then steered into the pub car park - and told the landlord that in her opinion they were already drunk. He did not serve them 8-) :lol: ! She then told these chavs that any more bother and she would call cops and replay the dictaaphone! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Joyce wonders why the report "singles out cyclists" and then confesses she rides on pavements "where the pavements do not have many pedestrians. "

Hmmm! OK ... speeding on empty road.. ignoring a pelican if no one person is in sight. ... Is this not the same sort of thing? It would seem so given the the people - even on PH - justifying the cyclist who appeared before the courts three times - each upholding his fine for jumping at red light at 5 a.m. My wife held that this is the start of the rush hour and was thus justified. I happen to agree .. in the summer - 5 a.m. I get a round of golf in. :wink: Lot of people around .at that early hour in the months of early dawns - and why some petitiion for double summer time :wink:

Joyce really ruins the campaign for cycling - focussing on "danger". Like any other activity in life.. it's only dangerous if you fail to observe common sense rulings :wink: and blames "ignorant motorists"

Funny how everyone else is responsible for one's own mistake and failure to apply COAST principles.... :roll: I use my eyes, nose and ears whether riding or driving. I do not hold anyone else responsible for any near miss because I should have been more aware - and I evaluate my rides and drives too. It's second nature now.

Joyce writes that she is cutting down on pollution -- blah - blah - blah and enjoys a healthy lifestyle.

Well - I once posted that it' simpossible to lead a truly "ethical" lifestyle and am sure Joyce enjoys budget holiday flights.. computers.... telly.. labour saving devices .... as do the rest of us. And probably shops at aa supermarket or on line. To get to her larder.. her goodies will have cost many road and air miles... as will most things she requires as "basics"... mobile phone..Ipod.. MP3 player.. DVD... computer... bike and parts for bike..... :roll: Sure these "greenier than thees" don't pollute anything? :wink:

As for the sport.. my wife commented that the sport may be enjoyable.. but hardly planet saving.. :wink:

For record .. my family travel to Europe by car (large family - we need both Jags) - and we put cars on motorail whilst we make detour on bikes, buses , canal boats , etc , and er - more trains. We do not do long haul holidays. Or we may put one car on the train and one car backs up the cycling tours with some luggage and tired young kids. :wink: Depends on our choice at the time. :wink: But even so .. this makes less pollution than the plane journey :wink: So we are then greenier :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 23:30 
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Meanwhile in the Bolton paper - Allan Ramsay (Roadpeace of Radcliffe and person who writes to CW rather a lot.... :roll: )

Speaking as someone who recalls the abyss one does sink into when confronted with a traumatic experience.. and a doctor - I would urge Mr Ramsay to stop dwelling on the past and move positively onwards.

He does nothing towards promoting cyclinge when he keeps writing about how "intimidated he thinks he is by drivers." I ride.. sometimes in Penrith, Keswick, Carlisle, Kendal and around the National Park here and in Manchester and some European cities - including Paris. I have never been subject to anyone in any car hurling abuse at me or leaning out of passenger windows in an attempt to push me off.

I do accept that my own sister (the one who teaches in Altrincham) is convinced an oncoming, approaching white van driver tried to force her too close to a cyclist she was about to overtake on the 40 mph stretch of the A6144 at Carrington. She's COAST trained /IAM.. she aborted and remained behind the rider who gave her a thumbs up when she eventually passed him. 8-) :lol:

In tonight's letter, however, he comments about an ANPR operation in Bolton and whilst he says

Quote:


the sooner we get "not quite right" drivers off the roads


he concedes that too many officers seemed to be tied up with this - when they could have been trying to cop seriously awful road users :o :shock: 8-)

Sadly - spoiled by suggesting "left to civilians" :roll: We just want more officers.. :wink: #

Blimey though.. he accepts speed is not why cyclist fatalities are up.. :shock:
Not sure about the cam on bikes.. sounds too much like "mosis" :yikes: :lol: :lol: He must lurk 'ere :wink: :wink: Maybe he is taking note of what is said here from the regulars and the - er .. um... er .. "trolly types" :wink: and having some "thinks."

Quote:

With camera technology being so capable - why can;'t cyclists have cam on bikes to identify those on mobile phones. Those loose cannons are the biggest threats to cyclists' lives


Ahhhhhh! Not speed then .... per the CW letters :? :? Blimey!

:shock:

But then he spoils it all - or does he? :wink: I could read this two ways and so can Wildy :wink:

Quote:

If drivers can use gadgets to detect speed cameras to protect driving licences - then who can deny a cyclist a camera to spot a mobile phone user which may protect their lives



Hmmmmm.... so .. lack of concentration on the road .. and more concentration on "anal and irrelevant mobile phone conversation" endangers all road users. About time..lack of COAST skills kill. Speed chosen is safest when all five are present.. and still controllable if one element in system fleetingly missing. :wink: Never understood the mobile phone thing.. but people sure look ridiculous to me when walking together and yet conversing on each of their phones and not enjoying the social and tangible companionship of walking home together.

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But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 21:43 
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Result of the poll -

:listenup: :lol: :shock: :lol: 98% Express readers who registered vote by phone and on-line voted

that they thought cyclists should be prosecuted for offences and held to account like drivers


Ahhh... voice of reason from the "average common man wot reads the papers. 8-) "

All things considered .. like the now infamous Clarkson rant in the StUN last year, Havers in the Waily and now the Express . .. I would not say these articles were anti-cycling but rather voicing the opinion that - like the truly awful drivers who make life a misery for other drivers - let alone cyclists and pedestrians - there are some louts on bicycles who make life a misery for all and these should rightly be held to account.

Those who see this as anti-cycling need to

1. get a life
2. accept that they are perhaps the main culprits.

It does no service to any campaign to get people back in the saddle for whatever reason to keep whining about being "vulnerable and blaming only the motorist/biker/pedestrian'horse rider" as this only serves to strengthen a perception that "cycling is dangerous" and brands these people voicing this as irresponsible and selfish lycra louts with scant regard for any rule and law. In short .. that handful which posts such vitriol - do nothing other than feed a stereotype :x

I ride a bike - I ride reasonably often with my family. Admit - I enjoy track days in my car too and play golf and rugby. I enrolled my children at the same clubs and encourage them to take part.. and they enjoy these activities - especially when they win against me. :roll: :oops: When on my bike - (a nice Diamondback roady 8-) ) - wear all my gear (including "Joe 8-) Cool" glasses, helmet, gloves and .. um lycra . I thus do not want to be associated with the lycra louts farting out lentil based hot air. I do not support Critical Mass.. I missed the first Act of a play I paid out good money for as a result of this fatuous and purposeless "jolly" which intended to cause inconvenience to others. :furious: and last winter.. we missed the reception drinks at a professional do in the 'big burbs as a result of another of these totally "anallly pointless", inconsiderate and illegal (in that no HSE Risk Assess or duty of care to public is observed... CM? :banghead: Far from making any "political" point ... those who participate have only one aim.. a totally selfish,, borish, ignorant intention to disrupt the lives of all other people :furious:

Basically - the only ones who do attend are the "yobs and nutters" The ones who ride roughshod over pedestrians, ride at speeds greater that the motorist in congested traffic conditions , jump red lights and hop on pavements.

Such people should be fined more than £30. Charges of dangerous cycling should be dealt with by the courts. It will come.... registrations and bans if we all use bikes anyway. Society has to set base rules anyway. Sure . .. we limit drivers as to speeds they can drive at. Most comply.. adopt the safest speed for the conditions and stop at red lights too. No one here suggests abandoning speed limits. By and large - they want real police and not automation which cannot discern safety of a situation from the "letter of what the lolly says" As some cyclists point out.. sometimes safer to ignore red light. Drivers say the same about speed limits (though I always obey red signal at junctions - but admit that pelican and deserted scene.. I may not always stop :wink: Like a lot of other cyclists - including those "miltants" :wink:



"Express" publishes two letters asking whther or not cyclists as a whole deserve the flak

yes letter wrote:


Joyce writes that she and other cyclists are tyring to cut down on pollution - so why so much animosity against them?

The answer is simpl: You are breaking the law and endangering the lives of those entitled to be on a footpath orin the pedestrian areas in which you ride.

Riding on the pavement is illegal and no self-righteos pontificating about being eco-friendly can change this



No - you cannot argue with this. These people cannot whine about drivers breaking a law and then break laws themselves either.


On the "no" side - the writer could not really justify himself either. 8-) :lol: :lol:

No to deserving some flak letter wrote:


Two of fhe "maniacs" were in pedestrian only street because the streets are too dangerous .


Please .. you dig hole for yourself :lol: Go on .. make things sound WORSE! Most want to be "part of the traffic and insist on right to use the road. To then argue against designated lanes.. use pavements and complain when advised (and not told :wink: ) to use the lanes and even petition that "being advised to use safe lanes per the Highway Code leaves cyclists open to refusal to pay on the part of insurance companies" :? :?

:scratchchin: -Bit of own goal there. :wink:

Writer lives in London and claims London drivers have a

Quote:

Pathological hatred of cyclists


OK - so I am Northern.. live in quiet Cumbrian and fairly remote area. Drive to the big 'burbs.. and abroad for hols. Have to ask...

Is there something in the riding style which provokes? Like - er - failing to abide by the basic common sense rules :wink:

Oh yes .. I will agree when this person rants that in return for "saving the planet" - he is rewarded with the cycle lane from hell - full of
Quote:

potholes... broken glass....


Oh.:yesyes: . try cycling along any suicidal paint jobs to meet some government target. Even the idyllic holiday resort of Lake District is not exempt from this stupidity :roll:


:lol: Redeemingly the "no" writer does agree over pavement cycling which is the nub of the paper's rant.. and this is aimed at that minority and NOT those of us who take road safety, driving, cycling and sport seriously :wink:


Quote:

I deplore pavement cyclists who speed along crowded pavements


I completely disagree with this

Quote:

But we make up our own laws to stay alive


as it perpetuates this myth that cycling is dangerous. By the same token though "accelerating out of danger" could be held as a parallel argument :wink:


Common sense dictates - but I recall Kriss getting a lot of flak for saying she hopped on a pavement to get out of danger - but legally walked and wheeled the bike - once by the very same idiots who now condemn the Express.. and justify riding on a pavement. :roll:



Hmmmmmm!

:roll:

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Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
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Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
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But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 22:28 
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Mad Moggie wrote:
OK - so I am Northern.. live in quiet Cumbrian and fairly remote area.

that's blindingly obvious as, I'm sorry to inform you, you don't have the faintest clue about what it's like to ride around London. Next time you're in the area pop in and we'll go out for a ride. I'll bet your tune changes damn quick.

Mad Moggie wrote:
Is there something in the riding style which provokes? Like - er - failing to abide by the basic common sense rules

So tell me then, why exactly have I had to fill in all those police reports and call 999 so many times that I've lost count? Are the nutters right? Should I not have been riding on the road and holding them up for all of .000001s (if that)?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 07:04 
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Mad Moggie wrote:
Simon Edge calls it


Simon Edge in <Express> pages 22-23 wrote:

On my way to work last week I was crossing a one way street where a queue of cars were waiting at the lights. The walk sign was on green but the cyclists ind the dedicated cycle lane whiz through with no regard to the rules. I looked left to check it was safe to cross - and was nearly nown down by a bike which made an illegal turn.

I heard an angry intake of breath from all around as this lycra-clad lout pedalled across my right of way Another pal was so angry when one ran over his foot that he kicked the wheels of the bicycle. Only then did the cyclist stop and threatened my pal with red ecked and faced violence.




If this were true, the cyclist who ran over the peds foot and had his wheels kicked would have fallen off.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 20:29 
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I have to admit I have used the pavement to reach the front of the traffic at a light where there is no room to do so on the road. Particularly on Finchley Road where the bus lane which cyclists have the right to use is clogged up with buses (generally Southbound).

Never collided with any pedestrians there though. The pedestrian I nearly collided with today, I think it was on New North Road N1, crossed in front of me without looking. There was a pedestrian crossing not far away but he didn't bother using it.


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