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 Post subject: Helmet Letter in CW
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 14:39 
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Chap in CW writes that he got knocked off his bike a month ago. and that the CTC (of which he's a member) are taking up his case.

However, he writes that his helmet was cracked in three places

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probably saved me from more serious injury and even death. And this brings me to my point

The CTC and other bodies campaign against compulsory helment wear. Following my accident I cannot see any logic whatosever in this.

Studies are quoted on a regular basis stating that there is no significant gain in wearing a helmt. But .. since my accident, almost every serious cyclist I've spoklen to has anecdotal evidence far and wide that the helmet saved them from further injury



Mine protects me from flies in my hair :wink: And the rain and cold too. :wink:

I would not like to chance a fall without it either. :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 00:35 
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If he didn't have the helmet on, could he have been able to look back more and have seen the car coming?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 09:43 
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I can't understand why cycling helmets are so feeble. If you are going to wear head protection go for something which could actualy protect. My daughter rides a horse and they helmets they use are far more substantial.

Looks like they have become more of a fashion accessory than protection.

Cycling helmet law is that same argument as motorcycle helmet law. We lost that one years ago. Only a matter ot time before the "nothing else better to do" law makers turn their radar onto this one. The days of helmet free cycling are numbered.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:11 
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Gizmo wrote:
I can't understand why cycling helmets are so feeble. If you are going to wear head protection go for something which could actualy protect. My daughter rides a horse and they helmets they use are far more substantial.

Looks like they have become more of a fashion accessory than protection.

Cycling helmet law is that same argument as motorcycle helmet law. We lost that one years ago. Only a matter ot time before the "nothing else better to do" law makers turn their radar onto this one. The days of helmet free cycling are numbered.


I suspect they are feeble because of weight issues.

a) from a performance issue. More weight Less speed!
b) handeling (A great heavy helmet on your head will affect the CofG to some extent
c) Heating. On a cycle the rider is doing the work! On a horse/motorcycle the machine/animal is doing the work. Even benieth my lightweight helmet my head gets pretty hot even in the winter!

As for the protection offererd a Cycle helmet is not designed to protect you from a 70MPH impact (since you cannot travel at 70MPH) Nor is it meant to protect you from being squashed by a lorry! (No helmet will save you form that.

What it is meant to do is make the diference, after falling off at 8MPH and bumping your head on a rock/kerb, between you getting up and saying "Ouch" and spending the rest of your life in a nursing home with a tube up your ass watching endless repeats of "I Love Lucy" and the "Oprah Winfry show"

From my own experiance cycle helmets, whils not capable of saving you from a high speed accedent (That would probabally kill you anyway) they protect from "Crippleing" damage quite well! I came off while cross-countrying and hit my head on a rock the helmet had a dent in it about the sixe of the top joint of your little finger. Doesnt sound like much but it was (would have been) right on my temple. Being helmeted I got up and said "Ouch" Without the helmet I would probabally have been knocked unconcious and may even have fractured my Skull!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:23 
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Dusty wrote:
From my own experiance cycle helmets, whils not capable of saving you from a high speed accedent (That would probabally kill you anyway) they protect from "Crippleing" damage quite well! I came off while cross-countrying and hit my head on a rock the helmet had a dent in it about the sixe of the top joint of your little finger. Doesnt sound like much but it was (would have been) right on my temple. Being helmeted I got up and said "Ouch" Without the helmet I would probabally have been knocked unconcious and may even have fractured my Skull!


I lot of people on foot suffer head injuries too. Perhaps falling down stairs. Perhaps after a road accident. (I did read that a lot of pedestrian fatalities happen because of a secondary impact of the head against road or curbstone.)

So, by the same logic, should we all wear something akin to a cycle helmet all the time?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:37 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
So, by the same logic, should we all wear something akin to a cycle helmet all the time?

if you really wanted to save people then you'd make sure that everyone wore helmets while driving. Airbags can only do so much.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:55 
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johnsher wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
So, by the same logic, should we all wear something akin to a cycle helmet all the time?

if you really wanted to save people then you'd make sure that everyone wore helmets while driving. Airbags can only do so much.


I did say 'all the time'.

It's going to get harder and harder to draw the line. As we get richer as a society more and more cash will be diverted to 'gold plating' safety.

- Sometimes this will have a negative effect on safety because of 'human factors' (risk compensation, distraction, false safety messages, limited opportunity to acquire life saving skills). Now where is all this happening already, I wonder?

- Sometimes this might tend to make life itself unbearable. The ultimate conclusion is that we wouldn't be allowed to get out of bed except to exercise. Machines would tend to our every need except quality of life.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:12 
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nicycle wrote:
If he didn't have the helmet on, could he have been able to look back more and have seen the car coming?


Ach - they do not give tunnel vision.

Basically bit of plastic coated polystirene...but depend where you bang the head anyway.

I do ride a pony sometimes und I ski too.. und speed skate und
play the odd game of ice hockey still - within reason ist a violently fast sport. You need the padding :wink:

Helmets are stronger for these sports .. und light weight for skiing und speed skating as speedy matters :wink: I see no reason why a cycling helmet could not be made to such exacting standards anyway.

But then .. we are talking COST und those alpine sporty helmets ain't exactly cheap! But legislation und standards will come as more ride und less drive .. und "they" want to fine everyone anyways! :hissyfit:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 15:44 
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I guess if I was a pedestrian who was unsteady on my feet for reason of some infirmity or other, I would consider wearing something, or using a zimmer to protect me! :roll:
In any other case, I accept a certain amount of risk, for a greater amount of "freedom". Everytime you open a tin of food, you accept a risk that it might be contaminated. The reason you accept it, is because botulism in tinned salmon is rare - but it is not unknown!
The greater the PERCEIVED risk, the more likely you are to take precautions, whether or not they are sensible!

Where cycle helmets are concerned, I wear one because it does not inconvenience me, it's not uncomfortable, it stops my bald patch getting sunburnt (I wear a hat in the sun even when not on a cycle), I have a cycle light mounted on it which lights up wherever I look, AND, it might just save my head from a serious injury - which protects my family from loss of a provider.
In other words, personal protection can be a family thing too. If you want to be reckless, your family might suffer. If you dont have a family, you might not think it so important.

Yesterday a 70 year old man died in Keswick, after falling from his bike in a side street, no other vehicle involved. He died of head injuries, and was not wearing a helmet. I'm sure that for a few days we will get a barrage of messages saying how important it is - but to my mind, at 70, the risks of death are starting to pile up from any number of causes, and I would have to say I would not wish to enforce helmets upon everyone, without first ensuring a whole lot more "risky" activities share the same degree of interference. :oops:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 17:42 
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I found some infor on protection levels. You would probably be better off strapping an egg box to your head. http://www.bhsi.org/stansumm.htm

Interesting the drop tests are onto flat surfaces. What happens if you hit the edge of a curb?

BTW also found this. It is helmet law by state. May be worth knowing if you are going there. http://www.bhsi.org/mandator.htm

Dusty wrote:
a) from a performance issue. More weight Less speed!
b) handeling (A great heavy helmet on your head will affect the CofG to some extent


A 1kg helmet sitting on top of a 50kg rider makes all the difference for the average cyslist.... :lol:

Dusty wrote:
As for the protection offererd a Cycle helmet is not designed to protect you from a 70MPH impact


My daughter has to wear a motorcycle helmet on her scooter whis is restricted to 30mph. This speed is achievable on a modern cycle.

From what I understand a cycling helmet only gives protection up to 12 miles per hour. So for most of the time for a serious rider it is able to give no protection whatsoever.. :x

I do not support the use of mandatory helmets (cycling or motorcycling) but from what I have seen cycling helmets are more a fashion accessory than serious safety equipment. They are just not up to the job.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 18:32 
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Gizmo wrote:
From what I understand a cycling helmet only gives protection up to 12 miles per hour. So for most of the time for a serious rider it is able to give no protection whatsoever.. :x


I think you're in danger of falling into the trap that got us the current speed limit enforcement. You can be killed below 12 mph with a helmet on, and you can survive unscathed above 12 mph without a helmet. The protection doesn't magically start or stop at an arbitrary speed. The helmet improves your chances, and I'd bet that it did that above 12 mph as well as below.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 18:55 
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greenv8s wrote:
The helmet improves your chances, and I'd bet that it did that above 12 mph as well as below.


That is not true. If the shell shatters at higher speed it could have a negative effect on safety. The problem is that as far as I can tell the limitations of cycling helmets are no well known.

Also if the shell is split by a sharp object it also offers no protection whatsoever.

The same problems were encountered on horse riding helmets a few years ago. After several serious injurys were reported by people wearing helmets they tightened up the standards.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 08:42 
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Gizmo wrote:
greenv8s wrote:
The helmet improves your chances, and I'd bet that it did that above 12 mph as well as below.


That is not true. If the shell shatters at higher speed it could have a negative effect on safety. The problem is that as far as I can tell the limitations of cycling helmets are no well known.

Also if the shell is split by a sharp object it also offers no protection whatsoever.


so those are both if's then?

not sure what you mean by the 'shell', cycling helmets do self destruct on impact.. thats their means of disspating the energy.

and just to note... horse riders have alot further to fall (unless you're riding a penny farthing).


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