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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 07:57 
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Story in yesterday's "Sexpress" und hitting morning press today...

(Kirsty Buchanan reported for "Sexpress" yesterday)

Ist hailed as Labour's next phase in the "War on Yobs"...with cyclists as "next target"

Look .. we tried to tell you so.. We campaign for common sense on road safety und other policies.. und NO FLEECING! Now we have another in the "guise" of road safety und "tacking rogues yobs in lycra".

Legislation that all bikes have bell fitted ist being drawn up und if cyclist does not ring bell to warn pedestrian that he ist there.. they plan a fine of....


two thousand, five hundred pounds


Cycles groups call this more "nanny state" (more like "nabby your cash state!" )

Pedestrians, of course, may welcome this move.. und call for this fine to be the one charged for pavment cycling :wink:

DfT officials are considering on - the - spot fines for riding without a bell - with persistent offenders going to court to face the aforementioned max of £2500.

In past five years - 12 pedestrians have died after a collision with a cyclist. Now of course this does not compare with 671 pedestrians hit und killed by cars in last 12 months (despite cams.. und of these - many hit und runs.. unlicenced und drugged up drunks were the offenders :furious:) .. but ist not true to say no one dies if hit by a cyclist und ist a fact to bear in mind.

Another fact to bear in mind that with the rising numbers of cyclists .. more die on the roads -- why the cycling profiency/bikeability ist a MUST for ALL to TRAIN UND PASS TO STANDARD REQUIRED.


Besides the new test, government now to require that cyclists do not remove the bell which comes with the bike or fit another trendier bell... but a bell they MUST HAVE! Or be fined if copped without one :wink:

Apparently though .. not just this government. Bike manufacture ist to be harmonised across all 25 EU Member states this autumn.

But

Graeme Obree record holder cyclist in Sexpress wrote:

Exercise in pointless red tape. If cyclist ist about to hit a rpedstrain they will shout warning instead.


Nein.. the one who caused Mad Doc's requiring stitches (und what a right wus he was over just a couple of stitches :popcorn: :hehe:) did not shout..or ring any bell.

:roll:

Graeme Obree wrote:

Cycling yobs remove the bell anyway., Bad cyclists should be charged with reckless und inconsidertate cycling Only civil servants could come up with such a daft idea


Nein Liebchen It's "THEM" whoever "THEY" are again.. :wink:

I am more interested in how they cop these people.. cameras? :scratchchin: "Designated cops" with sole purpose of ignoring all other "crimes" in quest to get the cash.. :popcorn:

But all the same .. am inclined to agree with Kevin Clinton overall who ist also active cyclist

Kevin Clinton of RoSPA wrote:

Cyclists breaking traffic laws should be prosecuted. If cyclists want to be treated sympathetically they have to behave responsibly. Some behave obnoxiously und do a great deal of harm to cyclists


You could substitute motorist as well Kev Liebchen :popcorn: It apply equally.. "rambler on the Fells" also apply too :popcorn:

But let us also face another fact.. as a nation we breed thugs und yobs who will ride bikes und drive cars. They are thugs und yobs on foot as well.

Ist this very core of breeding ill-mannered discourteous chavs und lack of steering our youngsters towards embracing moral, ethical common sense values und an really odd attitude to drink.. which need to be addressed.

Maybe then we have to polite courtesy on the roadways und riding/walking paths ..

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 08:21 
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According to the paper I read, in Manchester, they are using Uzi's to announce their presence.
I think that's a little more serious than a bell, on your bike, but a dam site more costly to police! :x

I have a horn instead of a bell - am I OK with that? :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 08:23 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
I have a horn instead of a bell - am I OK with that? :)


Less of that filthy talk...... :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 08:35 
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surely to ring your bell (or honk ya horn) at a pedestrian you'd have to be riding on the pavement :?

or are they going to make this legal just so they can enforce the bell thing :D

ed (also with horn)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 09:35 
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I'm curious to know how many cyclists have been killed and injured in the same period due to accidents caused by pedestrians.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 09:50 
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Daily Mail

Quote:
£2,500 - As Labour targets cycle safety, the huge fines serial offenders could face for not having a bell
By TIM SHIPMAN

Last updated at 22:53pm on 10th September 2006

Cyclists will be threatened with jail or a fine of up to £2,500 if they are caught riding without a bicycle bell, under draconian new laws Labour is studying.

Every bike in Britain will have to have a bell fitted and riders will be told they must use them to safeguard pedestrians or risk on the spot fines or even two years in jail.

Cyclists can already be hit with fixed penalty notices, fines of between £500 and £2,500 or have their driving licence endorsed if they are found guilty of dangerous riding, ignore red lights or ride on the pavement.

But now Transport Minister Stephen Ladyman has said it would be 'sensible' to extend the rules to bells mounted on the handlebars.

Current regulations dictate that every bicycle sold in Britain already has to have a bell fitted, but there is no obligation for the rider to keep the bell after purchase.

A Transport Department spokesman insisted that it would be up to the police to use their discretion about whether to prosecute errant cyclists.

But critics branded the proposals another example of the nanny state run wild.

The proposals are being considered by the Department of Transport as a response to new regulations from Brussels on the sale of cycles, which come into force in the autumn.

They are expected to be the subject of a public consultation, in which ministers would invite the views of cycle and motoring organisations before proceeding with the plans.

Official figures show that 12 pedestrians have died after being hit by cyclists in the past five years. Some 148 cyclists were killed on the roads last year - the most since 1999.

In a written answer laid before Parliament as MPs left for their summer break, Mr Ladyman said: 'Bells are currently required to be fitted at the point of sale of a bicycle, but there is no obligation to retain the bell when the cycle is in use, or indeed for the bell to be used.

"New harmonised European construction standards for bicycles come into force in November this year. Although they do not cover bicycle bells, the introduction of these standards makes this a sensible moment to review our current policies on cycle construction, including the question of bells.

"I would of course undertake a public consultation before making any proposal to amend regulations."

Liberal Democrat transport spokesman Alistair Carmichael said: "At a time when our country's transport infrastructure and especially our airports are creaking, you would have thought that the Department for Transport would have better things to do with their time.

"To call this part of the nanny state would be an insult to nannies."

Tory MP Robert Goodwill, who sits on the Commons Transport Select Committee, said: "If you are riding a bike you can shout and that often has more effect.

"If I see a pedestrian meandering around in the road, I shout 'Good Morning' quite loudly. That seems to do the trick and it is more friendly. If you ring your bell, people take it as an affront.

"If I was drawing up a list of things I would like to change about transport in Britain, I think cycle bells would be about 110th on the list."

His views were endorsed by Graeme Obree, the Scottish world record-holding cyclist, who branded the move a "pointless exercise in red tape".

He said: "If a cyclist is about to hit a pedestrian, they're not going to hit a bell - they are going to shout. What bobby is going to enforce a law like this? Yobs will take the bell off anyway. Only civil servants could come up with crazy ideas like this."

A Transport Department spokesman did not deny that the regualtions are being examined but downplayed the prospect of people being fined or jailed.

He said: "I wouldn't read too much into this. The European standards were a chance for us to re-look at a number of our policies. It is not certain that the regulations will change. The operational decisions are a matter for the police. Whether they would devote resources to this, would be an operational matter for them. I'm sure common sense will prevail."

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:16 
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Daily Mail wrote:
A Transport Department spokesman did not deny that the regualtions are being examined but downplayed the prospect of people being fined or jailed.

He said: "I wouldn't read too much into this. The European standards were a chance for us to re-look at a number of our policies. It is not certain that the regulations will change. The operational decisions are a matter for the police. Whether they would devote resources to this, would be an operational matter for them. I'm sure common sense will prevail."


Yep. Transport policies are applied with 'common sense' everywhere you look. Common sense applied to parking enforcement. Common sense applied to speeding enforcement. Common sense applied to road pricing proposals. Common sense applied to speed limit setting. :roll:

DfT is not fit for purpose.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:36 
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hmm, so if a pedestrian steps onto the road and into my path should I
(a) take one hand off the handle bars and therefore the brakes to ring my bell
or
(b) yell a warning while braking and possibly taking evasive action?

I know which option I'm going to continue opting for.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:54 
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johnsher wrote:
hmm, so if a pedestrian steps onto the road and into my path should I
(a) take one hand off the handle bars and therefore the brakes to ring my bell
or
(b) yell a warning while braking and possibly taking evasive action?

I know which option I'm going to continue opting for.


I think the theory of 'the warning instrument' is more as a preventative measure than an avoidance one. In a car I'll give a peep for two main safety reasons:

- If there might be other road users in a place that I can't see (blind bend, hump back bridge)

- If I think another road user isn't aware of my presence and may enter my path.

I think what I'm trying to say is that it's usually too late to honk when a collision is imminent.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 20:03 
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There'll be a lot of little tinkles everywhere ... :popcorn:

Will it sound like "wind charms a blowing in the breeze.." Or will we have klaxons..

Err... one of the rogues came back from the bike shop with one which sounds a bit like a loud raspberry fart or a whoopy cushion / :shock:

Chip off the old block .. our 8 year old :rotfl: I am thinking of buying a job lot for the family...

So who's game for a bike ride down Whitehall. Not averse to critically massing MPs :twisted: - honking away! :lol:

Sorry - it just begs for some twisted comments! :twisted:


Seriously - ring the bell if pedestrian is within ear shot and about to step off the kerb.. or if on a shared path etc - just in case they stray into my bit. I also slow up as I do in the car.

By the way - when I fell down the gas works.. was a pedestrian on the pavement. I never even heard the cyclist until he pushed past me and caused me to fall. Was no "wus" - it hurt and I do not like sight of my own blood which was everywhere.. :hissyfit:

[i] pavements are for people - I drive my car on the road and ride my bike on the road (occasionally use a path if it is safe and decent - but reserve the right to use my own common sense, judgement, and responsibility on those really daft ones around here :wink: )

I do not use any wheeled contraption on a pavement (roller skates with my kids in the local play parks apart :wink: )

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