Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Thu Aug 13, 2020 18:37

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Etiquette
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 14:33 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:04
Posts: 2311
Interested in opinions here whether it's just me that finds it poor form to deliberately ride to the front of a group of cyclists stopped at the lights (yes, it does happen) when you can't manage more than 10mph?
Today's example was slightly worse. Went past numpty, stopped at lights, numpty pulls up on my right, takes off like a bat out of hell in his granny gear, cuts in front of me as I'm lumbering up to speed forcing me to swerve around him. The process is (a) repeated at the next 2 sets of lights and (b) unneccessary as we're in a bus lane and he could have just held his line. I finally decided to ask the plonker what he thought he was achieving by his actions to be answered with "eh? what was that? I couldn't hear you because I've got my mp3 player on."
I guess it's asking too much to expect road sense from anyone stupid enough to be wearing headphones while riding (or driving).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Etiquette
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 20:57 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 23:42
Posts: 3820
johnsher wrote:
Interested in opinions here whether it's just me that finds it poor form to deliberately ride to the front of a group of cyclists stopped at the lights (yes, it does happen) when you can't manage more than 10mph?
Today's example was slightly worse. Went past numpty, stopped at lights, numpty pulls up on my right, takes off like a bat out of hell in his granny gear, cuts in front of me as I'm lumbering up to speed forcing me to swerve around him. The process is (a) repeated at the next 2 sets of lights and (b) unneccessary as we're in a bus lane and he could have just held his line. I finally decided to ask the plonker what he thought he was achieving by his actions to be answered with "eh? what was that? I couldn't hear you because I've got my mp3 player on."
I guess it's asking too much to expect road sense from anyone stupid enough to be wearing headphones while riding (or driving).


Indeed - inconsiderate. I think I would have pointed him to CTC and suggested "Bikeability test" :wink: which I think should be compulsory for all school kids in any case :wink: and also for anyone who decides to commute on a bike too after a long spell away from riding as frequency does mean "adapting to condiitons as constant" wherea a return to cycling after a long gap is a bit like driving again after a long spell away from prevailing conditions.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 13:56 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 15:30
Posts: 643
If a car driver were to come here and complain that they had been held up by a cyclist doing 10mph they would be accused of being impatient, cylist killers and told they should wait. Why is it different if you are on a bike?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 14:15 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:04
Posts: 2311
semitone wrote:
Why is it different if you are on a bike?

please, how about reading what I've actually written. I'm not complaining about people riding slowly, I'm complaining about people going out of their way to create an obstruction.

The correct comparison for a motorist would be another driver pulling up next to you at the lights, dragging you off, pulling into your lane and slamming on the brakes giving you the choice of hitting him or swerving into the other lane... Then repeating this process at every subsequent set of lights.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 14:48 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 15:30
Posts: 643
I read it absolutely correctly. There is a narrow bridge that I have to go under on the way home from work where I have to give priority to vehicles from the other direction. Almost every day someone on a bike goes to the front pushes in and then rides off slowly so that all the cars have to wait and often makes it so that only a couple of cars get to move before something comes the other way and the cars have to stop. After the bridge you then catch up to the cylist and have to wait again until it is safe to pass.

I just want to know why I am not allowed to feel frustrated by this because I am in a car. I don't suppose the people in your example believe that they are deliberately creating an obstruction any more than the people I see think they are.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 15:20 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:04
Posts: 2311
semitone wrote:
I read it absolutely correctly.

obviously not. My question was relating to cyclists pushing in front of / cutting up other cyclists, not cyclists pulling in front of motor vehicles or motor vehicles cutting each other up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 15:40 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 15:30
Posts: 643
johnsher wrote:
semitone wrote:
I read it absolutely correctly.

obviously not. My question was relating to cyclists pushing in front of / cutting up other cyclists, not cyclists pulling in front of motor vehicles or motor vehicles cutting each other up.


Why is a cyclist allowed to feel annoyed about a cyclist cutting in front of/holding him up but a car driver is not allowed to feel annoyed by a cyclist cutting in front of/holding him up? Please tell me - I'd love to know.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 16:02 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:04
Posts: 2311
semitone wrote:
Why is a cyclist allowed to feel annoyed about a cyclist cutting in front of/holding him up but a car driver is not allowed to feel annoyed by a cyclist cutting in front of/holding him up? Please tell me - I'd love to know.

a) this thread has nothing to do with car drivers so I've not said anything about their feelings. If you want to have an anti-cyclist rant take it elsewhere.
b) I never said they were holding me up (because they don't), I said they were displaying bad etiquette. Hence the title of the thread.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 16:29 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 15:30
Posts: 643
Quote:
a) this thread has nothing to do with car drivers so I've not said anything about their feelings. If you want to have an anti-cyclist rant take it elsewhere.


My comments are not intended to be anti cyclist at all. Bad etiquette can come from and affect all classes of road user. I too think it is bad etiquette to unnecessarily inconvenience any other vehicle (motorised or otherwise) with any other type of vehicle (again motorised or otherwise), but you must admit that had I complained about cyclists doing that to me in my car I would have been flamed for being impatient :)

Quote:
b) I never said they were holding me up (because they don't),


These comments seemed to indicate that you did think they were holding you up or causing you inconvenience:-

Quote:
when you can't manage more than 10mph?


and

Quote:
forcing me to swerve around him


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 16:58 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:04
Posts: 2311
and as long as I'm talking about idiots... I present for you this week's prize winner.

Seeing yet another "I want to stink all day" rider wobbling along a footpath, my sixth sense kicks in and I move over to the middle of the (bus) lane. Low and behold he wobbles off the kerb without even a glance, directly into my previous path - ie, had I not moved then we would have collided.
So is he worried about this at all? Oh no, not in the slightest...
"you're the one overtaking me, you should look be looking where you're going" is his response to a very loud "OI".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 14:19 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 02:07
Posts: 242
semitone wrote:
I read it absolutely correctly. There is a narrow bridge that I have to go under on the way home from work where I have to give priority to vehicles from the other direction. Almost every day someone on a bike goes to the front pushes in and then rides off slowly so that all the cars have to wait and often makes it so that only a couple of cars get to move before something comes the other way and the cars have to stop. After the bridge you then catch up to the cylist and have to wait again until it is safe to pass.

I just want to know why I am not allowed to feel frustrated by this because I am in a car. I don't suppose the people in your example believe that they are deliberately creating an obstruction any more than the people I see think they are.


Because, to be quite honest, there is plenty of room for two bicycles to pass each other so it is not the bicycle at all that is causing any obstruction. You are waiting because your car cannot pass another car.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 23:08 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 22:30
Posts: 19
To the original post, this is likely the actions of someone not able to think ahead as far as the next set of lights. He should hang behind faster cyclists. Still, you can always hang back a bit yourself and then play him at his own game!

The car/bike thing is frankly a constant annoyance. I think I have a fairly balanced view because I am a keen road cyclist, but also a keen motorist, previously owned a race car workshop, enjoy track days, held a class B race licence etc. If I am on my bike I always move to the front of a queue of cars. Like a motorbike, why would I not use the benefit of my narrow size to avoid queuing?

When driving, I always allow sufficient room for cyclists to get back down the inside/outside. It's not exactly difficult for a car to get back past a bike. In most town centre situations on my bike I am away from the lights quicker than the cars anyway. Cars are regularly holding me up in built up areas since my speed is similar to theirs, but they tend to hit the brakes more as a result of not looking and thinking ahead.

Almost every day, drivers will come past me on the immediate approach to lights or a roundabout, then stop too close to the kerb to allow me to pass the queue - it's cutting up plain and simple. A big thanks to the woman last week who took her wing mirror off on my shoulder when she only got a bonnets length past me before forgetting I was on her inside. And don't get me started on the matter of fast approaches to roundabouts where cars overtake or take my line, then hit the brakes and hold me up.

Mainly this is a matter of speed judgement - drivers in the main treat cyclists as stationary objects. They do not realise a fast cyclist can be doing 30mph+ and 50mph on the downhills (speed limit permitting, of course!). And in doing so, cyclists need a bit more road space in corners and roundabouts. The attitude to motorbikes is not the same - drivers give them much more room because the perception is they are 'fast'.

Cycling out the open road, lorries can struggle to find a safe passing place if I am doing a steady 25-28, especially if they are laden. I generally put a hand up and slow a bit to help them pass - it's called being a considerate road user. Maybe he will be more courteous to the next cyclist in return.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 21:37 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 13:55
Posts: 2247
Location: middlish
johnsussex wrote:
(speed limit permitting, of course!)


errrr... call me a pedant but... why?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 15:38 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 22:30
Posts: 19
Pedent, yes you are probably right, it was a throw-away comment.

Whilst writing, it's not often I can nominate 2 idiots of the day when we are only half-way through it: just been out for a lunchtime ride, on the way back on a good downhill at about 40mph with speed building. Some drivers overtake me on that hill but most don't - it's steep and fast (includes gravel run-off area) with corners - if they overtake at the top I catch them again by the bottom. At the top, as the speed builds I start to move out into the middle of my lane to protect my road space, get good lines on the corners and disuade drivers from passing and getting in the way. At this point, Numpty 1 got alongside me and I noticed his left indicator go on - now we all make judgement errors but I think most of us with a brain would pull back behind a bike to turn left. Not so for Numpty 1 - instead he floored it, got a few feet in front, hit the brakes and turned left. Now I can't stop from 40 as quick as a new Honda Civic, so I try to go round the back of him. However, Numpty 2 in Nissan 200 ZX was already alongside me having followed Numpty 1 and closed up to his bumper due to the sudden braking. I am trapped. Don't know how I got through the gap, but I did. If the result had been different, would this have gone down as another 'speed related accident'?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 16:21 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 00:04
Posts: 2311
johnsussex wrote:
I think most of us with a brain would pull back behind a bike to turn left.

don't be silly, cyclists only do 5mph so why should a motorist wait behind them?

Seriously though, it is quite scary the (rather pointless) extremes some people will go to to force their way past.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:51 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 23:28
Posts: 1940
johnsher wrote:
johnsussex wrote:
I think most of us with a brain would pull back behind a bike to turn left.

don't be silly, cyclists only do 5mph so why should a motorist wait behind them?

Seriously though, it is quite scary the (rather pointless) extremes some people will go to to force their way past.


I take my time.. und I wait behind.. they all have such cute bums after all .. :wink:

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 14:12 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 02:07
Posts: 242
It is generally true on the roads that most road users (including pedestrians) are most courteous to other road users of the same type, so car drivers to other car drivers, cyclists to other cyclists, pedestrians to other pedestrians, etc.

I think too many road users consider that other genres are just in their way. That includes cyclists who think that motorised traffic just gets in their way.

The usual reasoning is perhaps that if everyone else were using the same road in the same way, there wouldn't be a problem.

Unless we have completed segregated roads though that will never happen.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 19:34 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 21:41
Posts: 3608
Location: North West
We have to say we found everyone very much different in Austria - absolute courtesy to us at all times regardless as to whether the vehicles or the car.

There were a mix of lanes, designated paths, shared pedestrian/bike paths and quite naturally we were sharing the roads up the mountain passes with motor vehicles as well... but somehow did not seem to have any problems with any other road user there. By the way .. few speed cams .. less accidents.. more police around... :wink:

:scratchchin: Seems to work .. :wink:

But back to the original topic...


john wrote:
Interested in opinions here whether it's just me that finds it poor form to deliberately ride to the front of a group of cyclists stopped at the lights (yes, it does happen) when you can't manage more than 10mph?
Today's example was slightly worse. Went past numpty, stopped at lights, numpty pulls up on my right, takes off like a bat out of hell in his granny gear, cuts in front of me as I'm lumbering up to speed forcing me to swerve around him. The process is (a) repeated at the next 2 sets of lights and (b) unneccessary as we're in a bus lane and he could have just held his line.


This seems to contradict Earl's point that we tend to be more courteous to those who share our mode of transport. This guy seems oblivious to the other cyclist. His style is rather that of the amateur - sharp burst of energy and then loses breath and impetus as a result of the initial burst of pedalling. Not using COAST .. we did (or rather my sister-in-law tried to point out that COAST applies to cyclists just as much as drivers and bikers :wink: ) ...as by applying COAST - he's then able to pace himself better and more courteously to the other cyclists/road users and probably reach each set of lights without having to exert himself. :roll:

As IG says - guy needs to go on a course and it does seem to hiighlight the fact that whilst anyone can ride a bike .. few have the required skills to do so safely, competently and courteously. Perhaps though .. increased numbers using bicycles will bring about a compulsory test and all the legislation currently "enjoyed" :roll: :wink: by drivers :roll: :oops: :(

Quote:
I finally decided to ask the plonker what he thought he was achieving by his actions to be answered with "eh? what was that? I couldn't hear you because I've got my mp3 player on."
I guess it's asking too much to expect road sense from anyone stupid enough to be wearing headphones while riding (or driving).


Obviously concentrating more on the MP3 player than the road :roll:

If they do bring in legislation.. I'll bet these will become illegal "as we rely on ears as much as eyes when riding. :roll: "

Ooooh! some will call even suggesting banning wearing of mp 3 player whilst riding "anti-cycling" :roll:


Look - when one cash cow runs dry .... they have to find an "udder" one :P

:oops: I'll get me coat .... :wink:

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !

But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:55 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 02:07
Posts: 242
I certainly hope they don't start banning things like mp3 players on cyclists.

My feeling is that the attitude of the other cyclist is that "you go at your pace and I'll go at mine" because cycle overtaking cycle is not considered to be anything "tricky", i.e. the assumption is that it's easy because cycles are fairly narrow.

It's also probable that the other cyclist was taking his normal position at the lights, i.e. as far forward as able to go without colliding with anything rather than a position just in front of the traffic. There are many cyclists who occupy that position. Some will even go half way across the junction when the moving traffic is emerging only from the left (eg crossing from Upper Woburn Place into Eversholt Street whilst Euston Road traffic has "extended green" from the West).

It sounds to me like the route was one of those with horribly phased lights such that you get caught at every one, and that maybe the cyclist was trying to break the run and actually get through the next one thus the "sharp burst of energy". (And then, after putting in all that energy, 3 seconds before you reach it they turn and they all wonder why you ignore it and go through anyway).

One thing about cyclists is that they all tend go at different speeds (however it's obvious that my speed is the correct one and you are all either too fast or too slow - well that is the attitude that I was referring to).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 14:36 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:47
Posts: 1511
Location: West Midlands
How else can cyclists go through red lights if they're not at the front of the queue?
:roll:

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.409s | 11 Queries | GZIP : Off ]