Safe Speed Forums

My new steed has only been used for road duties (planting is just around the corner).

Just up the road from the yard is a mini round about, which gives good visibility when turning left, you can see the traffic approaching to the right, so it is normally a case of easing off to make the left turn.

A couple of weeks ago was actually on the roundabout when I noticed the car (which fortunately had noticed me) waiting to join from the right . Then on Wednesday the same happened .

I looks like the right hand mirror nicely hides a car, which can stay in the blind spot as both vehicles get closer together.

Lessoned learned and no harm done.

Wow - the mirror must be high up. Is the "waist line" of the new steed very high - or are you a short arse?

Seriously - well done for spotting this.

The 'A' pillars on most (all?) modern cars are remarkably thick, and with the preference for smaller cars and efficiency of designs, windscreens (and A pillars) closer to the driver - a double whammy for obfuscation if ever there was one. I am in the almost unconscious habit now of waving my head from side to side looking wither side of pillars (and *possibly* door mirrors - not thought iof that one - I need to check it out).

We have an Isuzu 3.5T Luton at work with great stuff-obscuring mirrors...

The mirror is high up, probably 7 feet +. I need to stand on the steps to clean them. Add to that the A pillar and the exhaust pipe is in front of the A pillar as well, which makes a big dark area. Oh, and I am a short arse

Just will have to be more careful now I know of the problem

Adam for noting this for yourself.

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This is a van/ lorry then ?

Do the Dealer / Manufacturer know about this potential problem ? Blind Spots can be so dangerous!

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No, it is a tractor. The exhaust pipes nearly all go in front of the left A pillar and mine is no different, plus you have the big mirrors. The mirrors do telescope out on their arms, but it makes them very wide, and being electric and heated and big they will be expensive to replace when they inevitably get broken.

The manufacturer looks to be revamping the ranges with a new cab, but mine won't get replaced for at least 7 years, but I am aware of the problem and now know where to look.

Maybe I should drop the manufacturer a line because they (and every other manufacturer) should be aware of it. Cabs are a big selling point and they are very good. I guess that by the time they have made the pillars strong enough to survive a roll over, hidden the exhaust that needs to be big enough to meet by stander noise levels and supplied mirrors big enough to be any use, compromises have to be made.

And when a simple head / shoulder movement of a few inches and avoid such a potential accident it is a shame that it is not more widely publicised.
There is a roundabout in Inverness that is notorious for cars not 'seeing' others, and there are many near misses. I think the layout is slightly offset and helps car to 'pocket' into a circle bit, and hide behind others mirrors. Plus waiting cars I think because of the offset think that the cars are going to pull off into their first turn off option not the 2nd. Then some cars coming off the d/c can come onto the roundabout at a moderate speed ... not helping things !
Approaching speed of 2 vehicles can so easily hide all sorts of vehicles even lorries !

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I have a similar problem with car rear view mirrors. A car coming from the left and only a few metres away can be completely hidden behind the mirror. If I am stationary, the problem is only fleeting but if we are both moving at a certain speed, the approaching car can remain totally invisible until it is only a few metres away.

ronp849
Your Position matters:
Might I be right in assuming that your eye level is close to the height of your r/view mirror ?
Is your car seat height a little high ? Can you adjust your position to avoid this clash ?
What make of vehicle ?

Moving to solve :
When you come to junctions aware of this issue do you move your head a few inches perhaps even a small lean forward to help elevate this problem ?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I am over 6ft and headroom has always been a consideration with the cars I drive. The vehicle is a Peaugot 407sw and the seat is as low as it will go - even so I am at the same level as the mirror. Moving from side to side can help but the movement can match the movement of the vehicle so increasing the Blind time. The only true way is to constantly look below the mirror, (leaning backwards or forwards) - this is not easy to do and can result in a very uncomfortable driving position.

Having the seat adjusted well back and reclined can also help but this gives near zero legroom in the back for any passengers.
Most of the time it is ok - but it does catch me out on the odd occasion.

Thanks for the info, that helps me appreciate your situation better.

The look to check the blindspots can be helped if you go forwards - pause, and then lean back to go 'behind' the pillar and also pause, then lean forwards again and check. Leaning I do appreciate, might be hard when other car furnishings can be in the way.

Finding a car, and systems that work, I am sure is somewhat difficult.
Check out these additional info pages : Here and Here and Here

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

ronp849 - first of all - Something else to consider , (if you know about it -no harm done ,I apologise for teaching granny about eggs,but if not -), when overtaking ( and i now do it on a return to left lane,having been nearly caught out once) - mirror signal as usual ,then before moving out -look over right shoulder into the blindspot somewhere about your door pillar .On returning to the left ,do likewise over your left shoulder .Watch for indications of someone in your left lane ( on DC/MWAY) pulling out without looking .Also check for vehicles in oiter lane pulling in .(I regularly in return to left lane ask mrs B if the left is clear -she can better afford the time looking elswhere than me . )

In short -
Mirror .
Signal
Indicate
Mirror .
Look over shoulder into blind spot .
If clear ,or if flashed , pull over .
Case of belt+braces +bit of string =looooong NCB( and safe you)

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Paul and I always tried to follow the policy that it is the driver that is driving and takes full responsibility for all actions (inc all heating settings as they are the most important person in the vehicle etc.).
It is only on extremely rare and unusual situations when we specifically requested a precise piece of assistance. The danger of a regular request is that the passenger never feels the responsibility of 'driving' - a friend told me once how she once just said it was clear, but had not even looked, but a lorry was coming ! Her husband thankfully saw it at the last moment and stopped before disaster befell them !
Can you position your car better to help you obtain better view/s ? Might an extra mirror help ? What prevents you from seeing?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Now gotten to be a matter of faith - I trust her judgement implicitly - as after almost forty yeasrs of beng a passenger she is qualified (IMHO)to coment .
Ok - it's driver who answers - but if you have someone qulified ,by reason of experience and you trust them - why not look for another pair of eyes .IMHO - safety is provided by all looking out for danger .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Ah but there is a big difference when you use another as added info than only info .... Paul and I would always look but not usually comment, obviously if we thought there was any possible need we would mention the hazard to confirm it has been seen. This is different to relying on another's input. I trusted Paul and he me implicitly but we still decided that to make this a habit as we saw it as the best practice, the driver has to be sure for themselves, and only in rare places of exceptional cases would we have to rely on another's better visual position.
We always used this and we never stopped looking (just in case). This was many, many years before my friend's near miss account.
Whilst not wishing to tell you what too do - I feel I should point out what we decided was 'best' but it is obviously up to you ... my friend thought she would never have made that mistake and was horrified at the possible outcome that may have happened.
I wonder how many accidents have been down to this ? - and how many have been prevented because of the extra vision?
Would people ever admit to it?

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Claire - there can be many thoughts on this - we drive as a pair - we have done so for about forty years -and I trust her judgement implicitly - lile that of youngest daughter , a driver of about ten years and a CBT person ( apart from that when youngest is in car, it's most possible that my grand son is in back - another reason for her not to make any mistake ).

I KNOW THAT IT'STHE DRIVER'S RESPONSIBILITY -but any driver aid (IMHO) is welcome .
I'd advocate passengers looking out for hazards ,rather than asking driver to be solely responsible for safety . You as driver can check out blind spots - your passengers are better placed to see things you can't . Any extra pair of eyesc looking out is better than one pair .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Hummm there are two things as I am quiet sure you realise going on.
When they inform you of something, do you check and so take the final responsibility or do you totally rely upon it and just act?
If so they are as many might use - adding to your information than (really) being your eyes / brain replacement.

Additional information, can be of help, total reliability upon another cannot, there really are no normal 'but's' IMveryHO, other than those very exceptional and rare occasions when vision is seriously impaired for example.
It is obviously up to you entirely, and I would not wish to 'tell you what to do, or how', but, I could never rely on anything 100%, that anyone else told me. As 'extra' and helpful info yes, but not that final or total decision.
In the nicest possible manner you understand.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

My wife and I have a similar approach to Paul and Claire - except on specific junctions where, for reasons of road engineering, it is often preferble to make use of the other's (very reliable) judgement of anything coming. These juncrions on our regular routes are well known to us and we just know by instincty where we rely on (actually rely is too strong, but are most grateful for) commentary from the passenger seat. There is one specific junction where turning right out of the minor road, bizarre as it may seem, as driver I look predkominantly left (behind June's shoulder) and she looks right, in front of mt torso. Apart from the oblique trajectory, there are chevrons on posts that almost completely obscure the view to the left apart from a few snapshots, whereas the view to the right is clearer particularly from the passenger seat which (at crawlibng pace) gets to see further a second or two sooner. A "CLEAR TO STARBOARD" call from my left allows a judicial exit where one otherwise may have to stop for some time, and a "HALT" is a great help too - no chance of flying out. If I'm on my own, I have to do a lot of eyes left/right in rapid succession and often have to miss what in retrospect would have been comfortable gaps.

If prompted, I have two stock phrases that I will use: "ALL CLEAR PORT" or "HALT". I will very occasionally use the latter unprompted - irrespective of who is driving me I will very rarely use the former unprompted, but have it ready to utter, if clear, on cue.

After Claire's comments ,I have taken notice of what I do ,and I'm surprised to find ,that except for one or two oblique junctions ,I've noticed that ,unconsiously up to now( without realising that I do ) ,I do double check .But it's still nice to have the passenger confirm that all is well - especially as I say she did at one time start to learn to drive ,would have made IMHO an excellent driver and with about forty years road experience ( albe it in passenger seat)a big help .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on