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 Post subject: Crashes we Pass ...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 20:19 
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Location: Highlands
When travelling recently I have seen a host of crashes, some the lack of attention - 6 all just prior to or within Av Camera Areas !

One was a 3 car mess up the M6 that caused a rather long massive tail back.
Many were bumper to boot inattention accidents, the larger one (M6) appeared to be (give limitations of viewing as one approaches and passes), an overtaking accident where one n/s and other cars o/side are very dented, with a third car of unclear damage ...

I suspect the one going into a lane, just as the other brakes for someone else's action, and as they are all travelling far too close together, of course, there is no safety gap and so nowhere to go, than quick reactions to avoid any incident. But as they are not that alert they just crash ...
I am quite sure if better safety messages were being broadcast, maybe some of these incidents may not have happened.

The av cam areas are so bad for tailgating and bunched traffic it is quite frightening to think of what will happen when it all goes wrong they will all just pie into each other probably before they have even thought about even hitting the brakes !
I manged to control my spaces pretty well but some took more work than others. I noticed a bigger increase in high vis rear vehicles that were not any emergency vehicles but all traffic seemed to assume they were police so adjusted their positions and speed accordingly which was interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Crashes we Pass ...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 20:52 
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Yes. My own experience agrees that bunching in specs areas is really bad, much worse than normal carriageways.
I suspect this is mostly due to those who occupy the overtaking lanes who believe they are doing everyone else a favour by 'being a pacecar', that is not letting other pass and preventing from getting caught by the cameras, but in reality they are actually in ignorant bliss that their speedo is way overreading.

The number of times I’ve seen L2/L3 numpties remain there, not overtaking, who are doing ~40 (GPS reading) in a specs 50 limit...

It is inevitable that other drivers, who know they are entitled to be able to travel faster, will get closer and invariably tailgate (not necessarily on purpose); that cant be good for safety.

Now it could be argued that it's not the lane-hogger’s (good intent or otherwise) fault that drivers bunch up too close behind them, but they are encouraging it by their inappropriate use of lanes. The sooner everyone realises they shouldn’t be enforcing the roads, and applying the lane discipline required of them, the better.

I had a lane-hogger argument with my brother last week. He didn't see anything wrong with doing it; he didn't know L2, L3 etc are overtaking lanes and that drivers should keep left when safe and appropriate. I had to show him the Highway Code to convince him (which BTW did the trick :D ).

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 Post subject: Re: Crashes we Pass ...
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 21:53 
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Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Perhaps you've hit the nail on the head on the subject of average speed cameras .Drivers are torn between the danger and fear of exceeding the lolipop, spending an excess time speedo watching in roadworks , instead of being allowed to act like rational beings (due to the folly of some minor number of idiots) and drive at a sensible pace .
Then again ,there is another thread around on the excesses of the elf & safety mob , which the use of average speed cameras is down to -employers of those in road works situations being put under pressure of not ensuring the safety of their employees unless speed enforcement is in place .
Up until recently I worked on the rail infrastructure .We had three basic methods of protection .
1- set up a construction site -supposedly a very safe system ,except that we had machinery on the go -targets to be met ,and people who could get trapped in the blind spots.
2 - block access to open lines -use fences or sentries(site wardens) to police the safe limits .
3 - Work on lines open to traffic with lookouts and retreat to safety when a train appeared .

1 & 2 - in the eyes of experienced blokes created an illusion of safety .3 - forced people to work safely -there were no second chances .
The road system uses something like 2 - but tries to force drivers to keep to a maximum speed - their resources are split between keeping tabs on the speedo and suround hazards .
Obviously roadworks can't work on system 3 - but if they used 2 with more mobile monitoring ( cops in cars) -then the idiots might reign in a bit -or get put off the road -and in their case ,would we really worry if they lost their right to drive( or in their case the ability to create mayhem)

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 Post subject: Re: Crashes we Pass ...
PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 08:55 
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One of the unintended consequences of setting speed limits at a lot below the 85th percentile is just as described above: bunching with people travelling too close.

Locally, the ludicrous 30mph limits now cause continuous streams of traffic with no gaps whereas before there were places where you could turn out easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Crashes we Pass ...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 01:16 
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It is a shame that we know this yet the Welsh CP chap dismissed bunching in Av Cam Areas ! Shocking.
It is sad when they have gone so far in their belief on a one trick pony that they cannot or do not want to believe what others can so easily see. The total lack of encouragement to leave good and sensible gaps neigh prevents overtaking too, so little progress can be made when appropriate. A while back we heard that there were car drivers encouraged to deliberately hold traffic in a pace car type mode - awful on so many levels !

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