Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Wed Dec 12, 2018 13:57

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 23:27 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
Had a near miss on my bike today.

I was merrily cycling along one of London's A roads (30 limit) and noticed the road ahead narrowing. There was a van close behind who didn't make any attempt leap ahead, the driver patiently followed behind me, not closely; so far so good. I wasn't hanging about.

I was looking for a place to hop on to the (non-residential, deserted) pavement so I could let it pass, but there was no dropped kerb areas, so that wasn't to be. The van had to follow for a little distance. Then I saw the road widen ahead, so I moved right over to give the driver an easy pass. I heard the engine speed up, but it didn't really get a move on. "Come on, pass me. You have plenty of room!" I thought to myself, because the road ahead was going to narrow again. The van was passing me at a relative snail's pace. It was halfway through passing me where the stretch of road we were on narrowed. The van came close enough such that I could easily whack my fist on the side of it without reaching over (by which time I already used up the error margin be moving into the gutter), and it was still moving over; I had to back off to prevent contact.

For a moment I was utterly confused. I played it back in my head. There was no sign of aggression and the driver was obviously aware of me. Why did the driver simply not get the easy pass over and done with?

I was even thinking "now I can't say to weepej that I've never been cut up by a passing driver" :lol:



Then it hit me - clear as day.
Can you guess what I had realised?


That's right!


The whole event, where the road was wide, was observed and enforced by a f*****g Monitron! :x


Evidently, the driver became more concerned about their licence instead of doing a clean pass (which is almost reasonable, not that it excuses the driver).

I nearly became a KSI at a camera site, thanks (partly) to the presence of the camera!
'Safety Camera' my fat a**e :x

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 00:49 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7354
Location: Highlands
Gosh - pleased to hear that you are OK - sounds like a very close shave ... sounds like that you had the right idea/s to keep yourself safe.


So .... could you have done anything different or considered to help ? I am curious to know why you didn't consider the camera's presence when you made your decision, when they could go for their overtake you ("I saw the road widen ahead, so I moved right over to give the driver an easy pass.") ?

I know that it can be really frustrating to stop or go very slowly but why not ?
And another thought - can cycle computers or one own's desire to go at a 'pace' when cycling cause one to make different and possibly less 'best' safe decisions ?

I was gobsmacked when I was told that handlebar lever brakes weren't necessary, as, you don't want to stop un-necessarily so don't unless you really have to ! They also said they didn't meet Eu full stopping regulations ! I wanted them and still want them, they are useful and just add a small braking to the bike, and that is helpful and safer than reaching down to the lower brake (on a racing bike).
Might you have been inclined to brake more if you had considered the camera ?

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 01:34 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
Glad you're ok mate.

It occurred to me, whilst following a slow moving farm vehicle on the way to drop the mother-in-law at the airport, after it trundled merrily past two decent-sized, and empty, lay-bys, that the obligation which behoves these slow-movers, to allow sufficient tailback to pass, does not extend to slow two-wheelers.

If the conditions are such that following traffic cannot safely pass a cyclist then surely the chances of them trying to pass unsafely increase with time. As the ultimate responsibility for one's own safety rests with oneself (we can have an argument about this if anyone wishes, but it is perfectly possible to be legally right, and still dead) then surely the best course of action for any cyclist who notices traffic following slowly whilst unable to pass would be to pull over and allow the faster traffic to clear before continuing.

Cue righteous indignation...

_________________
Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 05:06 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7354
Location: Highlands
I think we are edging to into the 'expectation of behaviour by others', and possibly by the time the situation has changed it is then 'too late' or past opportunity.
Steve mention's that he looked for the 'exit' but the height of a pavement prevented / discouraged it. Now I do agree that the wisest thing might have been to stop, or slow enough to remove oneself from 'potential danger'. (Just so clever after the event!)

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 09:33 
Offline
Life Member
Life Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 21:17
Posts: 3734
Location: Dorset/Somerset border
On my bike I tend to stop if something's approaching from behind that will struggle to get by (N.B. I cycle fairly slowly on very narrow lanes).

On wider lanes, nothing annoys me more than being overtaken v e r y s l o w l y. I'd rather have a vehicle alongside me for the minimum time rather than at the minimum speed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 15:44 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7354
Location: Highlands
Yep I detest it when cars wait behind you and then go by really slowly ! I have tended t stop to take control of the situation.
having said this in the mid 80's when the seat belt law came into being I had (as I recall) about 6 bums or hair's-breath close shave's with vehicles. It was like all cars now felt immune from damage, although I think it was down to people not moving around as much in their ar seats and missing vital road data.
I totally sympathise that Steve thought as the vehicle started to overtake it would increase speed and pass-by. I sympathise with the driver too for ensuring that his driving license was safe than make it safer with the cyclist.
The camera force drivers to compromise safety and that is appalling.

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 16:26 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 16:34
Posts: 4923
Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place
Glad you’re okay too Steve. The worst accident I have ever had on two wheels was on my bicycle when some :censored: forced me up the curb.

Makes you wonder how often the same thing happens to other cyclists but you never here of them because it doesn’t make news or the stats gathered by the DfT.

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 17:43 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
I am curious to know why you didn't consider the camera's presence when you made your decision,

That's easy. I always mentally filter our the presence of a camera when I'm on my bike, mostly because you have to go a bit out of your way to trigger one, and partly because there would be no consequence even if one was triggered.
Of course, I'm acutely aware of that camera when driving.

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
So .... could you have done anything different or considered to help ?

I guess I could have backed off earlier, but that's tricky as that behaviour was unexpected. (I am an adept cyclist so I knew how to evade if need be). There is one other solution.....

SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Might you have been inclined to brake more if you had considered the camera ?

Possibly, but I don't want my own behaviour to be unpredictable. I'm much more inclined to mount the pavement instead!

So the lesson is: I have to look out for camera sites, even when on my bike! :x

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 17:56 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
RobinXe wrote:
If the conditions are such that following traffic cannot safely pass a cyclist then surely the chances of them trying to pass unsafely increase with time. As the ultimate responsibility for one's own safety rests with oneself (we can have an argument about this if anyone wishes, but it is perfectly possible to be legally right, and still dead) then surely the best course of action for any cyclist who notices traffic following slowly whilst unable to pass would be to pull over and allow the faster traffic to clear before continuing.


I agree (not that this exonerates the driver). Don't forget, I am a driver too, so I understand and appreciate the expectations.

I was already pulled over to ensure the van had plenty of room, and I did slow up when I realised what was going on. Indeed I was already looking to mount the pavement before the event; I'm always ready to do so when I sense I'm holding up traffic. Before anyone decries my mounting pavements: I should point out I recently had a thumbs up from a passenger for doing exactly that to let them pass, so some drivers really do appreciate it.

IMO: the problem wasn't my action or yielding, it was instead my unexpecting the need to take further action because of the (at the time) unanticipated hesitance of the driver, that being caused by the presence of the camera.
The camera caused an unpredictable and adverse reaction from the driver, which (for whatever reason) reduced the driver's ability to interact safely.

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 19:41 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 19:08
Posts: 3428
I can see Steve's point on all this though, the camera wasn't adding anything to road safety but just the opposite in discouraging safe overtaking without falling foul of the "law"...the sad state of this country today, do you break the law or drive safely, it seems that you can't always do both.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 20:32 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 16:34
Posts: 4923
Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place
And whatever you do you must never, ever, go on the pavement. It's the law you know! :banghead:

Better to stay on the road and risk getting killed than ride on a barren pavement, so some would say :banghead: :banghead:

The law knows best... :censored:

I'm just glad it didn't come to anything bad for you Steve and think it is a very sad state of affairs indeed that current road 'safety' has come to this. :(

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 02:58 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7354
Location: Highlands
Steve wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Might you have been inclined to brake more if you had considered the camera ?

Possibly, but I don't want my own behaviour to be unpredictable. I'm much more inclined to mount the pavement instead!
So the lesson is: I have to look out for camera sites, even when on my bike! :x

I think it is more about considering the potential hazards and to include cameras that motorists have to react to in many ways that consequentially effect the behaviours of the motorists to the detriment of all other road users.
I try to consider possible actions of others when I scan of the roadway. I am not perfect at it or anything, but I think that by giving potential hazards 'due consideration' as to how I need to act, and how others might, helps keep me and others around me, safer. You see so many going headlong into a hazard area, with no apparent consideration at all (no alteration or reaction to their riding / driving).

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 18:38 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 21:15
Posts: 692
Location: Belfast
:gatso2: The van driver would seem to be unsure about this. You say that the van was passing you at a relative snail's pace. He's initially shown you some consideration, but not enough. I've been in situations before when I want to overtake a cyclist but a Highway Code rule - you must not overtake on a bend, prevents me from doing so. You also state that the road ahead was narrowing. Again, a Highway Code rule You must not overtake where the road narrows. Your van driver has been trying to balance his judgement between you and the narrowing road ahead.

My approach is to hang back and wait until I can pass safely. And no, I don't care if that causes a tailback of traffic. The Highway Code recognizes a cyclist as a legitimate road user. And that's good enough for me.

_________________
Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:27 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 19:08
Posts: 3428
The problem is, these days, that the councils are building so many pointless obstacles in the middle of roads,whether they are 30MPH or 40MPH limits that overtaking opportunities, even on straight roads, are being limited and often only a few yards before the next obstacle. They are making it neigh on impossible to overtake slow moving vehicles or cyclists safely at all. I had to folow a grass cutter at about 10mph for ages the othe day, before i could overtake it and that wasn't because the road wasn't straight or because of oncoming traffic, there just wasn't any overtaking chances between obstacles placed in the road.

Is it any wonder that urban accident rates are so high?

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:51 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 16:34
Posts: 4923
Location: Somewhere between a rock and a hard place
graball wrote:
The problem is, these days, that the councils are building so many pointless obstacles in the middle of roads, whether they are 30MPH or 40MPH limits that overtaking opportunities, even on straight roads, are being limited and often only a few yards before the next obstacle.
That's rife where I am Graball. :x

They have a kind of small thin island split into two halves in the centre of the road with a little beacon placed in between, (one of those white plastic illuminated things). They put them about 20/25 yards before all the Bus-Stops.

As a result, the traffic constantly comes grinding to a halt in places along the entire length of the road because there's inconveniently not enough room to overtake the bus between the bus and the island and when the bus has stopped you are not allowed to overtake the both the island first and the bus in one move. So nothing can ever go faster than the slowest vehicle! Sometimes a line of traffic is just stuck there for two or three minutes while the passengers board and dismount.

To give you an idea how absurd it is, when I used to live in the area where this occurs I could often cycle past the whole lot and be on my way; either that or get trapped in that situation where I catch up and get asphyxiated by the bus as it moves off in a vicious stop/start cycle. Talk about a lose-lose situation! :banghead:

Yeah, great idea Birmingham City Council. W :censored: s!

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 13:57 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
CJG wrote:
you must not overtake on a bend, prevents me from doing so. You also state that the road ahead was narrowing. Again, a Highway Code rule You must not overtake where the road narrows.

At the stretch in question, the road was wide, and was wide for enough length to perform a safe overtake

CJG wrote:
Your van driver has been trying to balance his judgement between you and the narrowing road ahead.

I think the driver was trying to balance judgement and the risk to their licence!

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 15:37 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 19:08
Posts: 3428
Quote:
To give you an idea how absurd it is, when I used to live in the area where this occurs I could often cycle past the whole lot and be on my way; either that or get trapped in that situation where I catch up and get asphyxiated by the bus as it moves off in a vicious stop/start cycle. Talk about a lose-lose situation! :banghead:

Yeah, great idea Birmingham City Council. W :censored: s!


I think that Birmingham, Wolverhampton and Telford have all "shared" the same highways chiefs in the past decade or so, constantly shifting them round when they realised they weren't worth the kings ransom they were being paid (or just bl@@@y useless)....;- 0

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Close shave on bike
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 22:22 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 02:17
Posts: 7354
Location: Highlands
So when we judge in those precious few seconds between taking 'some' action, what makes us choose correctly ?
I think it is made up from :
knowledge - road, environment, immediate conditions, action experience (similar learned lessons)
threat - immediate or soon - if our space is, or about to be, 'invaded'
action - whether or not to move immediately, in a moment, or if our action or any action, will avoid the 'incident'
skills - we can increase our ability to perform better
experience - lessons learned from previous incidents and this new one is stored, and info is committed to memory to help when the next danger threatens.

So when we look back we can asses what was best but at the time we try to analyse everything in a short space of time.
Can we learn to process better and faster, if so how ?

_________________
Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.334s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]