Safe Speed Forums

Apologies in advance that this thread contains no useful content, but I need to let off some steam after almost being rammed off the road by some blind git. Of course if anyone has any suggestions as to how things could have been improved, they are welcome.

I'm trying to leave Milton Keynes after a trip to Maplin, just exited a roundabout, onto one of those 70mph dual carriageways with 2 lanes in each direction. About 20 metres from the roundabout a right-turn sliproad starts to appear.

I've exited into lane 2 because I'd spotted a cyclist up ahead in lane 1. There's a few people have already overtaken this cyclist, and this car in lane 1 gets pretty close to the cyclist then sticks his right signal on.

I figure he is probably going to overtake the cyclist, so move to the rightmost edge of my lane to give him a bit more room. I can always dive into the right-turn sliproad if he needs a bit more room or decides to change into lane 2 or something.

And change to lane 2 he does, forcing me into the sliproad, and still he keeps coming at me. By the time I realise he's actually going to make a right turn here, I realise that even if I were to stomp on the brakes now he'd drive straight into my front wing.

So only option I have is to floor it, finishing my own overtake with less than a foot of free space either side of my car. No colission happened, so I do a check of the mirrors before moving back into L2, and the guy still doesn't appear to have noticed that I was ever there.

Scared the crap out of me. A right turn from L1 on a 70mph dual carriageway in MK, it's not like there wouldn't have been a roundabout soon that he could have U-turned on.

First things first, I understand your rant completely.

Now let's look at it from another angle......

You should have "expected the unexpected" from another road user and not put yourself in a situation whereby you were relying on them to behave in a certain manner to start with

My fathers motto to me every day was "expect the unexpected, and treat every other road user as if they are out to kill you"

It's worked for me so far.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

I did have an escape route planned, the right turn sliproad which was completely empty.

I just never expected to have to use it quite that quickly.

My Uncle had a similar saying...

...except he finished it with "treat every other road user as if they were an idiot."
I believe he picked it up in the army, so perhaps you dad's version was the original!
My Driving Instructor said when I told him:
Every other driver IS an idiot.
I think I know what he meant!!!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Hi Lum, my advice is this. At 20 m from the roundabout, with a cyclist around and traffic trying to get past him and a slip road coming up on the right, there are more hazards there than you can shake a stick at. It’s not Brands Hatch, so ease off the gas in case. If there is a right hand lane and a bloke in front signals right, do not make assumptions - he might actually mean what he is saying, which can bring on an undies-filling incident easy enough.

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I stole this .sig

Wasn't this a blind spot incident?

It sounds like Lum was in the other vehicle's offside rear three quarters blind spot. The answer here is to be highly aware that the other vehicle may not have seen you and to take full responsibility at an early stage for making it safe. This starts with always minimising the time you spend in the blind spot.

Next it's unwise to pass through the blind spot when the other vehicle has a reason to move across on you. So if he's gaining on an obstruction ahead, you either want to drop back or blast past. If there's something on the right like a turning then that's another reason to hold back. And if there's a slip on the left suspend overtaking completely until you're clear of it.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

There were not that many hazards. This is MK we're talking about here, so no pedestrians and huge flat areas between the roads and the nearest building. Tons of visibility and good road surfaces

I was intending to be in the blind spot for as little as possible, and had already started the overtake before his right signal came on. I was planning on making a right at the next roundabout anyway.

Generally I find with a cyclist on a road like that, drivers co-operate pretty well at making the first few feet of lane 2 clear to allow the lane 1 people past which is what I'd planned to do.

I guess I should have just blasted past, despite Basingwerk's comments, at least then he would have had to have been deaf as well as blind to not know there was another car coming.

Distances are estimates, I dont work with numbers when driving, and thinking about it now while a bit calmer, I think it might be further than 20m

If anyone knows the area, it's V6 Grafton Street heading towards the roundabout that connects it to the A421 to Buckingham, I was going to make a right towards Buckingham

Good luck, Lum. I wasn’t there and I don’t know what the hell happened, you are both still alive, which is the main thing, isn’t it?



Yeah, the old “take a grip and let it rip” option. It pays to keep a good supply of clean undies, though!

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I stole this .sig

Indeed, I guess I'm just a bit stressed, this happening just 4 days after getting my car back from someone driving into the back of it a second time.

It's been off the road so much that when I was working on it yesterday, one of the neighbours thought it was new!

Lum, I know the road, the company I work for is based there, always lots of numpties around.

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

I don't go to MK that often, well never during the working week, but I've generally found the driving there comparatively good compared to other places.

That is if you ignore the habbit of people at certain junctions to always use the leftmost lane to enter the roundabout, regardless of your intended direction. I guess people just can't be arsed going around them properly.

Lum

I'm with Paul on this one - a blindspot incident is the most likely, with your escape lane unwittingly exacerbating your lack of visibility to the driver emerging from L1 to turn right. I suggest replaying in your mind the early aspects of this one. I tend to hang back at such situations rather than be "en pris". However, even though I do this, there are typically very subtle differences in the telegraphy (and I don't just mean sticking on the indicator) between the driver pulling out of L1 to overtake the bike and the driver pulling out to cross to a right turn exit lane. They are very subtle - and not infallible, but they really do exist.

For the pulling out to overtake....
* Typically a slight burst on the throttle (exhaust smoke, increase in engine note, back end goes down a half inch or so)
* head of driver stays focussed forward or possibly slightly leftward
* either neither hands move or both hands move up slightly towards the top of the wheel (ready for a return)

For the pulling out to cross the carriageway and exit...
* Typically lift-off (over-run noises for old car, reduction in note for modern car, back end does not squat and may even rise a little)
* head attitude of driver veers slightly right
* right hand of driver moves toward the top of the wheel slightly (ready to pull down and turn right).

Two last minute left glances are helpful - one just before you lose sight of his brakelights (if they flash on be prepared for flight or fight) and when you are level with the front wheels - look at them, they will tell you where he's going far better than anything else at that stage.

To be honest, I cannot remember what actions the driver did, what they looked like or even the make model or colour of the car.

I attributed them slowing down to the fact that they would have hit the cyclist if they didn't.

I suppose with hindsight this could have given me a clue that they wern't paying attention, but the most logical explanation would be that having finally noticed the cyclist they are now going to overtake him.

I agree on the blindspot thing, although there was plenty of time where I was approaching in L2 and not in the guys blindspot.

I'm just glad I was in the Legacy and not the FWD underpowered piece of crap hire car I had until 4 days ago

Be honest - would you have contemplated the manouevre in something that did not have the reserves to deal with what trranspired? My guess is that that would have tipped the scales into the "too risky" territory and you'd have yielded earlier.

One last thing, can I suggest you go through the process of completing one of Jeff Hadley's near miss forms on http://www.nearmiss-report.org/ ? From what you've said above it may not add much, but you never know.