Safe Speed Forums

I'm not sure how I could have anticipated this one..

The road is an urbal 30 limit dual carriageway. 2 lanes in each direction. I'm heading towards a roundabout, at the roundabout enterance an additional lane appears for those turning left into exit 1 (Morrisons), the other two lanes are straight ahead to continue on the DC. There is no right turn. It's 3PM, light traffic, a bit damp but visibility is fine.

I'm in L2, there is some white car in L1 and there is a white Nissan Micra in the left turn lane that appears, we all enter the roundabout at approximately the same time.

Now I am always careful on this roundabout because whilse the road I'm going onto is a DC, there are always illegally parked cars in L1 outside the sandwich shop, so the people exiting the roundabout have a tendency to make sudden lane changes at this point.

So I check the left wing mirror and decide that there isn't a problem as the other car has slowed and is presumably going to tuck in behind me. I look ahead again and proceed to exit the roundabout.

A second or so later I notice a white front wing in my peripheral vision, brake, pull left and lean on the horn.. It's the bloody Micra from the left turn lane, she[1] has cut in front of the other car whilst on the roundabout and is now about to drive into the side of me. About 4' into my lane and 6 inches from collision she finally notices I'm there and pulls back into L1, gesticulating wildly and shouting obscenities at me.

How the hell was I supposed to see that one coming, anyone?

[1] Apologies ladies, but it was a she in this particular case.

You forgot that all driving rules go out of the window at roundabouts near supermarkets, garden centres and hospitals.

I've got an easy fix for that. I ALWAYS (well I hope I do always) do a left over-the-shoulder check before exiting a roundabout from an inner lane.

This sort of effect has quite a few variants, and many of them are common. Motorcyclists are specifically required to do a left 'lifesaver' (shoulder check) before leaving a roundabout. I have absolutely no idea why car drivers aren't taught the same thing.

In fact, it should be MSSM for many many manoeuvres:

Mirror. Signal. Shoulder check. Manoeuvre.

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Paul Smith
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Sage words from Paul - although I don't actually know if it would have helped in this instance from your description.

For situations such as this - where other traffic is approaching a roundabout at the same time as me and from the same direction, wherever possible I arrange my "arrival to go" at the roundabout to be different to others. If visibility is clear on the roundabout and nothing is coming round, if I am to converge at the same time as another, depending on what is easiest for me I will either speed up slightly or back off/brake slightly so as to go onto the roundaboout in file as opposed to 2 (or an enforced 3) abreast, irrespective of the road markings and room/ease of negotiation.

If there are things coming round, life is more difficult - unless you can time a "fly-in" from an otherwise clear lane by braking very early and accelerating onto the roundabout to merge at free-travelling speed.

I do generally try to handle the car in L1, usually by going faster than it, and I do check that they aren't going to cut across into L2 because the buggers always do once they realise that L1 is blocked with illegally parked cars (which it always is)

In this case, I had checked and determined that the L1 car was not going to be an issue. I didn't think to check that some lunatic in the left turn lane (I suppose that's L0) was going to cut across L1 and drive into the side of me. I guess I have too much faith in humanity.

Not wishing to appear sarcastic, because I'm not being so, but it appears to me that lane markings on approaches to roundabouts are there for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Practically everytime I turn right at a roundabout, some prat who has approached in the inside lane (even if it is marked TURN LEFT) will invariably also turn right. Therefore, I always look over my left shoulder as I start to make my exit. And as Paul says, we bikers look over both shoulders all the time anyway, which has also become a (useful) habit in the car.

And secondly, you yourself said it was a female driver.

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Roundabout discipline is something that really winds me up.

I think basically people forget the basic rules of roundabouts as written in the Highway Code.

Well done Lum for your fast reactions, and possibly a shoulder check would have sighted the kamikaze shopping trolley earlier.

I really don't know what's so difficult to understand about roundabouts.

I think that the more the authorities try to stop bad lane discipline on certain roundabouts, such as kerbing in the left-only lane Lum described, or painting huge arrows all over the lanes, the more the offending drivers forget about the standing rules for all roundabouts.

It's getting to the stage where almost anything goes and it's starting to get both dangerous and very annoying (provoking more road rage incidents).

I wonder what would happen at these bad roundabouts in heavyish traffic (where the tricks seem at their height - round here anyway) if a couple of BiBs stood on them watching all the traffic.

Would people miraculously sort their acts out or would they carry on as normal, turning in wrong lanes, 270deg queue jumps and all?

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Like I've said a couple of times. I do shoulder check the next lane, especially on that roundabout as it always happens.

There are lots of terrible roundabouts in Aylesbury and I have a general formula for what kind of idiocy to expect on a random roundabout, as well as remembering specific roundabouts that introduce theeir own special kind of idiocy.

Generally, if the correct lane for a particular car is lane N, expect them to occupy lane N-1.

Special roundabouts:

Broadfields roundabout, Bicster Road (A41), approaching from town - It goes from 2 lanes to 3 as you enter the roundabout. Exit 1 (shopping, left) has 2 lanes and exit 2 (A41, straight ahead) has 1 lane. There is no exit 2. Logic would dictate that the first two enterance lanes therefore are left turn and the third lane is for straight ahead. There are no direction arrows.
What actually happens is that anyone attempting to use L3 for anything except a U-turn will get blocked in by people using L2 to go straight ahead. transit vans and commercial pickups will use L1 to go straight ahead. HGVs will (correctly) straddle L2 and L3 and then get cut up by the aforementioned vans as well as impatient people in luxobarges that have decided to undertake in L1

"Blue Leanie" roundabout, A41, approaching from Morrisons - This roundabout was converted from 2 lanes to 3 and is very clearly marked. You would have to be a complete idiot to get it wrong, consequentially it happens all the time.
It used to be a 2 lane approach, L1 was straight ahead and left, L2 was straight ahead and right. They squeezed a third lane in between the existing two. The 3 lanes are now left+straight, straight+right and right only. I regularly use L2 to turn right as it drops me into the correct lane upon exiting.
What happens is that about half the users (it appears to be the older half and taxi drivers, who have been using the road for years) completely ignore the new middle lane and cut about 4' into L2, a little bit further around some nutter in L3 will try to take exit 2 completely ignoring the fact that there is a car in the way signalling right. If that wasn't bad enough, as you take exit 3, all the people who use L3 to turn right will then ignore the lane dividers and drift across into you somewhere between 0 and 3 car lengths after exiting the roundabout.
People are slowly getting used to this one though, and as they do a design flaw has been revealed that is getting worse, basically the approach road is 2 lanes, then the lanes disappear for the duration of a pelican crossing. On the other side of the pelican crossing it has become 3 lanes with no clear indication as to wich lane has priority entering it. At rush hour, this makes for a lot of jostling for position as people sit with 2 wheels on the centre line to "claim" the middle lane. Often people just sit in this lane even before it exists, and generally it will start 4-8 car lengths before the pelican crossing.

I could go on further, but since Aylesbury is close to Milton Keynes, I should probably stop now.

Re Bottyburp on lane markings - well said - very surprised that the Ricoh roundabout in Coventry doesn't feature highly in this topic.
Three lanes of traffic from M6. Approaching island all marked as straight on , L3 has right turn option( arrow straight and RH). Get on island and suddenly L3 becomes Right turn only -- options - if quiet change lanes - if busy go round one more time.

This is second attempt(i've seen) at marking it out.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Well if it's badly marked roundabouts you want, how about M6 J14.

If you're heading south and leave at this exit, the signs tell you that L1 is for Newport Pagnell and Milton Keynes, L2 is Milton Keynes only.

Then about half way around, L2 disappears and everyone has to squeeze into the queue of cars in L1.

The only way to use L2 sensibly is if you're first in the queue and intend to out accelerate everyone in L1 (or L1 contains an HGV)

it never ceases to amaze me just how little understanding there is of HGVs and how they manouvre etc on the road. the vast majority of car drivers hate us and have no tolerance of our needs but this is not evident here at all. sure, questions are asked but at least they are asked and not the usual 'telling off' that is so often the case. i know i am not the only trucker here but this site is primarily 'non HGV' and its good to see so many people trying to understand

back to the topic. i know exactly what you are talking about. in an HGV, the quick glance over the shoulder is not an option so the mirrors come into use so much more. in my car, im always looking over both shoulders and using mirrors. you never know what is going to happen but you should at least get the earliest warning available

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Richie

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