Safe Speed Forums

One of those "I've seen it all now" moments...

On my way home this afternoon after a day out with the family. Travelling southbound on the M6 approximately 2 miles north of J39 (Shap). Pretty quiet and all is fairly serene, I am in L1 with the cruise latched in at 70ish, and notice an Audi approaching at about Warp Factor 8 from behind. Pleased to note that although he's fairly whipping along he's paying attention and moves out to L3 to gain extra separation as he passes me, also easing off a little as he does so.

At about the same time, about 1000 yards in front a car signals and pulls off onto the hard shoulder. I check behind and decide to move out to L2 just in case, immediately after the Audi has passed me.

When I am about 400 yards from the car on the hard shoulder it pulls back out without indicating, but instead of rejoining the carriageway it pulls right across all three lanes in the path of the Audi, who is probably no more than 200 yards from him as he starts the maneouvre. We both slam all on as the car has now turned through about 120 degrees and is slanting diagonally across in front of the other car, who has everything clamped to the floor and looks from where I am to be certain to hit him broadside and still doing about 50mph.

I wonder why the Audi hasn't swerved for L2, but conclude that he's maybe not certain whether I'm going to come barrelling up and has decided to stay put and hope he can brake out of trouble.

Just when a collision seems unavoidable the other car manages to cross in front of the Audi and disappears into a "cut-through" road that leads to the Northbound carriageway. Now I was never in any great risk - even if the other cars had hit and spread across all 3 lanes I had plenty of space left to pull up and get out of the way, but the Audi driver's heart must have stopped for more than a few moments!

It seemed like the whole maneouvre was pre-meditated as the slip road he took isn't really visible until you are almost alongside it, and he pulled off into the hard shoulder before that. So the questions I can't think of an answer to are

1. If his local knowledge was that good why didn't he know he only had to go another 2 miles to the next junction where he could have turned round?
2. In any case, having pulled off specifically to give himself a position from which to execute this dubious stunt, why did he then do it slap bang in front of an approaching car, or was it a SMIDSY?

Either way that was one of the scariest things I've seen in a long time, largely because it was so "random" - you really can't drive around mentally preparing for stuff like that happening can you?

As it happened I don't think there was much I would have done differently a second time around - I was aware and certain there was nothing behind me as I'd just moved lanes specifically to make space, so my reaction was full emergency braking to create a bit of space in front, which very fortunately I didn't have to use.

Couldn't get his number as first of all it was obscured by the other car, then it was out of sight as he went around the corner in the "cut-through" by the time I went past.

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Was the Audi in L1 at this time?

Was it dark or daylight?

I'm guessing that traffic was pretty quiet, yes?

As far as defensive strategies go, two observations come to mind.

Firstly much of the danger on motorways comes from the hard shoulder. If there's anything on the hard shoulder, and the road is clear enough then moving out to L2 (as JT did) is definitely smart.

Secondly, when someone is moving across your path, it's usually better to go behind them into the opening gap as opposed to infront of them into the closing gap. In this case, working from L2, and given the time that it MUST take for the idiot to cross L1, there should be time to adjust course and pass behind with little drama. The problem comes where either: a) we can't believe our eyes and don't assess and react in good time or b) when we don't have L1 as a buffer and the movement from hard shoulder to obstructing L1 takes place quickly.

As for u turning idiots on motorways, well, words fail me. Where are the trafpol when you need them?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

He's still out in L3. Like I say, he seemed to be pretty switched on so I thouight he'd have dived for L2 to go behind him. I could only assume that either he wanted to concentrate purely on braking rather than try and make any assumptions about the idiot driver; or that he knew I was somewhere behind and to his left, and didn't want to take his eyes off the scene in front in order to check whether I'd reacted too.


Broad daylight, and fairly quiet. That said, there was some traffic ahead, which is why the other car was still out in L3 I guess.

My thoughts (and indeed words at the time) precisely!

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I would have thought that being in L3 would give a substantial gift of time to react. How long must it have taken for the idiot to cross L1 and L2?

I suppose that 10mph is about 1 lane per second (14.67 ft/sec) so there's around 3 seconds before L3 can be closed off. That's enough time to brake from 60mph, but of course the Audi may reasonably have been going much faster and trouble might not have been recognised until the nitwit was already across L1.

I wonder if the fact that the Audi was in L3 kept him out of the nitwit's mirrors? Yet another reason why we need shoulder checks...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Congratulations here to JT on his handling of what might have been very nasty.

I forget if I've mentioned this before; if I did it would have been in the clubhouse before the "Near miss" section existed. Apologies if this is a repeat.

When going down to Kent to see my ill (now dead) father, I was travelling on the M20. Roads were good; it was dark and there was next to no traffic. I was ... let's just say I wasn't hanging around. My lights were on main beam. On the three-lane each way stretch, about 30 seconds or so in front of me I see a van parked on the shoulder and a person holding something standing behind it. Instinctively I am straight to Lane 3 to maximise lateral distance from hazard. Next thing I know, I'm about 5 - 6 seconds from this chap, who has misjudged how far away I was and is in Lane 1, trotting briskly toward the central reservation - on a perfect colision course with me at the respective speeds he and I were both making. In fairness it is just possible he was being wind-propelled and trying to keep a hold of this road sign (acting as a sail). Anyway, I did what JT expected the Audi to do - planted the brake to scrub off most of the speed and, knowing there was nothing else around, dropped back to lane 1. I passed him with a lane to spare at a modest speed. I didn't see his eyes even look my way as I passed; it is entirely possible he never saw me at all. I didn't like this one bit (which is I guess why it sticks in my mind). Had he suddenly seen me and done an about turn, life would have been more interesting. I would have been able to stop, but am glad I was able to retain a modicum of progress.

thats the problem under these cirumstances. when you suddenly spot a danger, what is your immediate reaction? STOP! just like the audi did. you cant anticipate cases like these where people seem completely oblivious to your prescence and you have no idea of how they will react if and when they do spot you.
in theory, i agree with SS on aiming for the opening gap but that is not failsafe either especially with pedestrians and animals. sometimes they will carry on their course, sometimes they will stop, sometimes they will turn round! this is down to luck more than judgement and anticipation

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
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Not as much time as you think. Remember that at the moment he turned into L1 he'd look for all the world like he was just rejoining the carriageway, so the car in L3 would tend to assume that staying where he was and getting past ASAP was the right thing to do. It would only be when he failed to straighten up but continued to turn in front of him that it would become apparent that the unthinkable was happening, by which time he'd be into L2 and only one lane away from a collision.

Maybe one thing we could usefully learn from this is that the earliest warning of anything being amiss was when the car pulled straight onto the carriageway instead of accelerating on the hard shoulder first.

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Yeah, yeah. I worked that out in the paragraph you snipped!



Yep. Good tip.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

if the guy doing the u turn did look could his view on the audi have been obscured by your car?

if he was on the hard shoulder you are in lane 1 and the audi is in lane 3 if he looks there must be parts of lane 2 and 3 he cant see

I don't suppose Mr. U-Turn had a satellite navigation system did he?

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Andrew.

That might seem possible based on recent bad press on these things. Not the gadget at fault really - common sense, basic intelligence and the apparently little read booklet - aka Highwway Code should all combine to tell that a U turn or attempt to reach some obscure cross country road are a :nono>

Yes - had I happened along - even off duty and not in uniform - I think Ian's HQ would have received a phone call and details of reg number. Had benefit of training which means I tend to notice reg plates

Guess all you could learn from this is just watching the potential "vehicle language" from the manner driven as JT has mentioned. Again - part of the chalk up to experience - and I think I once said in my Hendon notes that part of the observation technique does include a very quick appraisal glance of how the driver is postioned in the driver seat. His body language - affecting how he affects other road users. If he looks over his shoulder - sure sign he's planning an overtake if clear to do so. If he's slouching a little - he's not concentrating or if he's slightly turning his head - possibly to chat to his passenger - then again you are on alert for very slight error potential on his part. Not particularly dangerous - admittedly - but enough to cause a concern.

Going back to one of the daft things I saw on a motorway.

Case 1 - was whilst based in the South

I'd noted a car stopped on the hard shoulder and the young lady driver walking away from the car. She'd run out of petrol

I stopped - read her the riot act. Whilst I was doing this - chap on the opposite carriage in L3 stops his car and asks me for directions. I bawled out some directions in rather blue language (not printable ) to the nearest exit and radioed to another colleage to greet him there if he could make it . (We never caught him.... grrr!! But I had to get him back moving and I was not going to cross the M1 to get his licence either.)

I then whisked the young lady to a petrol station - filled her can - returned to her car and we got her started. By the way I did issue a penalty as running out of petrol on a motorway is careless.

Case 2 - Lorry reversing.

Lorry driver missed the motorway exit so he decided to reverse back He tried to reverse a significant length to manoeuvre into the slip road

I did not bother with a fixed penalty - I decided this was far too serious an offence. He did whine at me and my partner for a long time though..

Case 3

Driver tries to reverse entire length of slip road.

Succesfully convicted of dangerous driving ...

Not drunk or on drugs but one which I never found out why he wanted to do this. He did have a valid licence as well - no endoresments.

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A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Oh I'm not blaming the device, they're great as long as you know how they work and that they aren't perfect. It is of course stupid people which are the problem. If only there was something we could do about them...

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Andrew.

Mine does not tell me to do a U-turn ion a motorway. If I get on a motorway or DC in the wrong direction it directs me off at the next exit and back in the correct direction. I would assume other models are the same.

Although it did get confused by the Spanish motorway toll station and insisted I was on a local road some distance away.

quite bloody right! the motorway is not the place to be if you dont know where you are going or what you are doing. the majority seem to do whatever they like on the motorway and to hell with anyone else. they should be pulled up for it

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
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I wouldn't be supprised if American satelite navigation systems did!

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Andrew.

If I read correctly JT, this is'nt a classic U-Turn as such, as the carriageways are separated at this point by up to a hundred yards?

The car has actually pulled LEFT, then turned RIGHT into a lane which joins the two carriageways - which is there for maintenance vehicles and emergency services presumably.

I once saw a cone laying lorry execute a three point turn in the lane it had recently coned off on the M61 exit into Manchester. As it completed the manouvre, it had reversed into the remaining open lane, right in front of a car which was a good few yards ahead of me.
Only by swerving into the hard shoulder did he mange to pass the obstructing rear end of the lorry. It was a real close call - like JT I fully expected a worse outcome.

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