Safe Speed Forums

TBH, I didn't exect anything else, as you're obviously someone who thinks, and tries to impart that to others.




It's a continuing, flowing line. You're continuously looking ahead to find the 'best' position on the lane width.

Wherever you are 'now' is the best view you're going to get, but based on what you can see ahead you decide [ie plan] the best place to be (modifying that choice as you go if need be).

And that position is decided by whatever priorities you (as in 'one') put in place.

Which is where I came in




So looking ahead from 'now', you'll use some decision-making process, be it SSV or SVA, or for 'L' riders on test 'middle of the lane with some 'safety' positioning allowed.

But - as I know you'll agree - you won't look ahead and plan for view when it conflicts with danger, you'll do it the other way around: view if it's safe.

So your priority is 'safety' first, then view.

Which, as I pointed out with my quoting (not inventing) was what you disagreed with:



All I'm saying there is that if I'm in any doubt I'll not go for the 'view' position.

The point I'm labouring is that it's easy to get enthusiastic about the benefits of view positioning, but the priority is 'safety'.

Why am I labouring it? Because, often, 'advanced' is seen as synonamous with 'faster', and many riders will use improved view as a performance aid rather than a safety aid - without realising the, for example, lengthening of braking distances that comes from just a small increase in speed.

Riding in a 'middle of the lane' position, changing line to avoid danger, won't put you in trouble as long as you ride at a speed commensurate with the risks you can see, and the road clearly visible ahead.

It's that 'Message', again.


Final message from me before I upset any more of SS's riders:
I like to use the riding style of 'the happy pessamist'. If I've planned for the worst and it happens, I've got it covered; if it doesn't happen, then I'm happy.

Ahh. I fully understand this 'problem'. It's a classification issue. There's a big difference between 'overall safety' and 'safe position'.

Every choice we make contributes to overall safety. But often it's useful to look inside overall safety and see what it's made of.

A safe position is one where there's no immediate danger of any kind. Often it's a zone of possible safe positions. When it's a zone we can move within the zone to enhance vision and hence overall safety. When we get good safety and good vision across a zone, then we can pick a position within that zone for grip advantage.

And when we do all of the above we get best overall safety.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Well, obviously, neither would I.



Ah, this is where I have a tiny conflict. As you may have gathered, I'm very enthusiastic about the benefits of getting the best view. I think it's an essential part of forming my riding plan and hence, safety. It's not so good that I'd risk being hit by a truck, though.



Well, 'safe progress' does seem to be a phrase which is often used when talking about 'advanced' riding. I firmly place 'best view' as a safety aid. However, it will naturally improve our safe progress performance.




It's not going to give you the best 'pass' in an IAM test, though!

Some of the problem here is one I've talked about before - elsewhere on this forum. I think it's very difficult to sit in front of our PC and describe in detail how we deal with the minute decision making process of riding (or driving). So many actions are within our subconscious. Maybe we are all a bit guilty of thinking very optimistically about our own performance.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Phew. That does make sense. I had guessed it was something to do with definitions or classifications of 'safe'. Couldn't put my fingure on it though. Is it to do with 'safety' that has a real-time effect as opposed to safety planning (for what is likely to happen)?

Sometimes I wonder why I do this - I always seem to end up in a dispute with someone.

There will always be a zone which will be safe, and that zone will narrow when hazards become more accute until a point is reached where there is only one 'safest position'.
Within a safety zone there will be an optimum position to improve our safety. By that I mean our 'future' safety and not our 'immediate' safety. Thats where best view position comes in.

Having said that, even in a situation which is almost free from hazards, there will always be a best position.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Hey - don't worry about a dispute with me; I'm on anti-inflamatories [really - Carpal Tunnel Syndrome ]

Now, apart from uploading to a remote server, is there any way of posting a picture here?

Edit: Just read the FAQ . . . bum. I'll have to trawl out the password my other space and upload there next week.

I knew I had the password files somewhere

Found this on the Mike Waite site, it's a still taken from one of his videos.

Personally, I'd have waite(sic)d for the van to pass before taking up such as position - it's so far from the bend that there's little to gain (IMO) by getting out there that early.*

Comments?



* Unless he's travelling really quickly - but even then he could be braking on a diagonal (but bike upright) line towards the view position.

Hi.

That is not the position I would be in.
I would think that his position has done little to improve his view and has compromised his safety.

I can't really see why he's there - but there's one or two 'little' things in his video I would not agree with.

Overall, he did a great job but, for instance, I don't think I would have left in the bit where he rides the wrong side of a mini roundabout!

edited to add: I suppose he might be in the process of moving away from the van - there's still a little way to go before they pass each other.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Have a watch (there's commentry overliad too, about position and hazards . . . ):
http://www.mikewaite.co.uk/video/free-v ... ends-high/

Bearing in mind that the whole point of the video is 'cornering', and reading the limit point, it amazed me he left in the bit where he got a corner wrong . . .

Hmmm. I haven't seen that before. I've only seen his full-length video.

As a training video, I think he could have found some much better examples. All the bends he took had additional hazards which he didn't seem to react to.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Agree - I would be at least 2 foot closer to the curb. there's just no need to be that close - gets him maybe another 8 foot of view on the road ahead. Which is all academic if he catches the mirro on the van. However, the only thing I would say is that the camera position may make it look closer than it is. that is the classic (what I call) class 1 line.

I know it's just one still and I haven't seen the video, but if I'd been handed just that pic and asked to interpret it I'd have said he's just pulling in from a risky overtake of whatever the camera is in and the van's gone over to his left to make room. Shows you shouldn't judge by appearances!

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Fatshoutybloke