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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:52 
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psychomological I suppose. If I'm forced to look back, I wont get lazy. also maybe something to do with timing, on the motorway (I rarely use motorways) I set up the distance to see clearly past the vehicle in front, take position, look back, look back again so I have an idea of the speed of the vehicle in the lane outside of me, all clear, go for it. I found it more difficult to judge the speed of vehicles approaching in the mirror.

There are possibly a good few reasons I haven't even thought of yet but I've never found any benefit using mirrors. we all have our quirks and kinks, vive le difference and all that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 13:12 
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covmike wrote:
psychomological I suppose. If I'm forced to look back, I wont get lazy. also maybe something to do with timing, on the motorway (I rarely use motorways) I set up the distance to see clearly past the vehicle in front, take position, look back, look back again so I have an idea of the speed of the vehicle in the lane outside of me, all clear, go for it. I found it more difficult to judge the speed of vehicles approaching in the mirror.

There are possibly a good few reasons I haven't even thought of yet but I've never found any benefit using mirrors. we all have our quirks and kinks, vive le difference and all that.


One of the fundamentals of safe riding, is to know what's happening around you - at all times. I can't see how you can do that without mirrors.

You should only do a shoulder check / lifesaver when you are in any doubt. To take your eyes off the road ahead to look behind is not good practice.
Obviously, without mirrors, you must be in constant doubt! :yikes:

Having said that, motorways are a classic example where doubt will be present. With multi-lanes, there will be blind spots using mirrors alone.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 13:27 
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been riding on the road 30 years without an incident that could be attricbuted to lack of mirrors. I've lasted this long and never had any doubt what's behind me. not much else is going faster than me, unless it's another bike. It's surprising how much more you can see in an open face helmet.

As for riding in the wind, the worst experince I've had was riding down a road when a gust from a side street nearly blew me acroos the road into the police station. many years ago while I was still on a 125.

a fella on TV some years ago was on the motorway on his BMW. thw ind caught him and lifted the bike, along with him and his wife from the 3rd lane across the 2 inside lanes, hard shoulder, over the embankment and dumped them in a field where they lay unconcsious. If memory serves, I don't think anyone found them until the fella became conscious and wandered back to the m/way.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 14:16 
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covmike wrote:
been riding on the road 30 years without an incident that could be attricbuted to lack of mirrors.


Well, that's the law-of-averages for you! It doesn't mean it's safe.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 14:28 
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if you really want to be picky about it, it doesn't mean it's not safe either. just in case you want to pick me apart further, I don't use daytime headlights habitually either.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 14:50 
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covmike wrote:
if you really want to be picky about it, it doesn't mean it's not safe either. just in case you want to pick me apart further, I don't use daytime headlights habitually either.


Sorry - just offering my opinion......

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 15:27 
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covmike wrote:
[...]There are possibly a good few reasons I haven't even thought of yet but I've never found any benefit using mirrors. we all have our quirks and kinks, vive le difference and all that.


I'm pretty shocked by this. I can hardly believe that anyone wants to ride or drive without mirrors. That said, I'd like to try and approach it with an open mind.

My experience suggests that I need to look in the mirror at least once in 10 seconds (and usually twice), and I just can't see how sufficient awareness of traffic behind can be maintained without mirrors.

As I'm thinking through this - trying to make sense of it practically - I'm coming to believe that riding or driving without mirrors fundamentally means trusting those behind not to overrun you. And since shunts are probably the most common crash type it seems unwise.

Right now I'm pretty much baffled as to why anyone would want to try to manage without mirrors, so the question is this: What's the advantage of riding without mirrors?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 15:40 
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no advantage but on my bikes, vibes make them almost pointless. what are you going to do if someone shunts you, with or without mirrors? can you predict a shunt? Is there enough room for you to manouvre away from that possibilty? if shunts really are the most common motorcycle accident (leaving out rowv of course), mirrors make any difference? mirrors were probably present on near 100% of those bikes involved seeing as the majority are riding modern bikes. I'm very rarely in a position to be shunted having filtered to the front of stationary traffic. cars are bristling with mirrors, they dont prevent shunts either.
the only time I have found mirrors to be any real use, was to check my mates have kept up and all are present.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 20:00 
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I find mirrors of little or no use. I have a Vtwin and the vibration makes the mirrors useless, everything is a blur. Much easier just to look over your shoulder (if you have an open face). You are supposed to do life-saver observations anyway, you just need to turn your head a few more degrees. A bike is not like a car. You do not have blind spots.

Motorcycle only need one mirror by law. If you have a pushbike you don't need them at all to be legal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 20:12 
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Quote:
A bike is not like a car. You do not have blind spots.


I beg to differ. On several occasions I've had bikes in my mirror blindspots.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 20:58 
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R1Nut wrote:
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A bike is not like a car. You do not have blind spots.


I beg to differ. On several occasions I've had bikes in my mirror blindspots.


That is not what I meant!

Bike mirrors have horrendous blind spots, thats why I don't rely on them.

What I mean is that we have 360 degree vision. not like in a car where you have the roof pillars and head rests in the way.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 21:01 
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Quote:
What I mean is that we have 360 degree vision.


Are you an owl?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:53 
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Ok here goes.

1) I don't get flies and grit in my eyes because I ride with glasses on at all times. In the day I wear shades and in poor visibility / at night I wear 'yellows' like these. The yellows have a strange effect of massively reducing glare from oncoming traffic whilst actually enhancing white road markings. A good pair of well-fitting glasses offers as much protection from the wind as a full-face.

I find that even on the coldest day, glasses are far less likely to steam up than a fullface with a visor because you're not breathing into the same airspace, and even when they do mist up, they clear much faster.

2) I know that I have no chin protection. However, I am MUCH less likely to suffer neck injuries as a result of not having a chin guard. Its one risk paid off against another and its the choice I made when I started riding in an open face.

3) You will never understand riding without mirrors until you do it. You have MUCH better rearward vision by turning your head than by using mirrors because your body doesn't get in the way and once you get used to it its as natural as looking in a mirror (R1nut - you can actually see directly behind you so yes, you do get 360 deg vision). You also learn to ride much more defensively IMO without mirrors. I don't think its reasonable to assume that you need mirrors to be properly aware of your surroundings.

Its the same thing as riding without indicators (my 1st proper bike never had and never will have indicators). You learn to position yourself on the road properly and plan ahead much more, and an arm stuck out makes the point much better than a little blinking amber light. Yes there are certain circumstances where you have to take extra care, but you soon learn to adapt.

At the end of the day its about personal choice. Touch wood I've never had a spill on the road and I've never been hurt whilst on any bike. I ride within my abilities and the limits of the bike and road which is alot more than can be said for the plastic rocket bregade, who ride 3 days a year when the sun's out. I don't often have problems with ROWV which I believe to be down to a combination of the appearance of me and the bike and the exhaust noise. However, I refuse to accept that I am more of a danger to myself and others by choosing a particular style of helmet and no mirrors. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:15 
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much better put than my attempt. cheers sixy :wink:

Here's a good case of using the brain like a sponge instead of a filter; I'll be sorting out some 'yellows' asap.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:25 
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covmike wrote:
much better put than my attempt. cheers sixy :wink:

Here's a good case of using the brain like a sponge instead of a filter; I'll be sorting out some 'yellows' asap.


They really are good - nice deep lenses too so they cover the soft bit under your eyes too. Should only be £15 or so - I got mine at a bike rally when I got caught out one year.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:34 
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:lol: I just had a DUH! moment and realised why skiers wear yellow tints :D As I also have a gitty goatee beard, I'd hate to be chased by screaming fans of Ali G


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 14:23 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
1) I don't get flies and grit in my eyes because I ride with glasses on at all times. In the day I wear shades and in poor visibility / at night I wear 'yellows' like these. The yellows have a strange effect of massively reducing glare from oncoming traffic whilst actually enhancing white road markings. A good pair of well-fitting glasses offers as much protection from the wind as a full-face.

I find that even on the coldest day, glasses are far less likely to steam up than a fullface with a visor because you're not breathing into the same airspace, and even when they do mist up, they clear much faster..


I agree. I have interchangeable polycarb clear lenses that snap in. he glasses have a removable foam insert that prevents the breeze getting in if you don't have a front screen.

The only time i have had problems with the lenses fogging up is in torrential rain or hail where the water managed to get in behind the lens.

The have an adjustable strap to jkeep them on if oyu are riding helmet free or only have a half shell on.

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Last edited by Gizmo on Mon Jan 22, 2007 14:29, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 14:28 
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I never got on with the emovable lens jobbies - the lenses ketp falling out...

You're right about torrential rain though, although I don't think its any better or worse in a full face TBH.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 15:08 
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I find the pinlock visor insert for my Shoei XR1000 stays clear whatever the weather, and is easily interchangeable to put in anti-glare or tinted inserts as required.

The truth is that to maintain maximal situational awareness on your bike you are going to have to use every aid available, this does include turning your head, shoulders and body if required, but mirrors should not be neglected.

You may find it a nuisance that you see part of your shoulders in them, that they have frankly massive blind spots and the vibrations from your engine render the reflection blurry, however, why discard a potentially life saving aid to SA? Even if all you can make out from the blurriness is a hint of motion, which turns out to be the vehicle behind pulling out to pass you on a DC right after you have completed your shoulder check and are about to move across, this is aiding SA and potentially saving your life.

I want every aid possible to building a mental picture of exactly the road situation around me at all times to be brought into play.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 15:17 
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I can see your point Robin, but I'm saying that I can see all I need to be able to see by turning my head.

That hint of motion that turned out to be a car trying to overtake me? By looking behind me, I've seen it there in my lane and have judged its speed as a possible conflict before committing to the menoeuvre. Besides which, I don't stop looking behind as I start the move, I'm looking everywhere as I'm changing lanes to make sure nothing unexpected happens.

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