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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 15:50 
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Miggins

I don't have a problem. YOU'VE just said "all the biker wants to do is get to the front of the queue" - as for making allowances, I've anticipated another driver's action (both car and bike) in order to avoid an accident, more than once. don't you think you need to do the same instead of making it everyone else's responsibility?! If you're incapable of sharing in the making allowances and looking out for other drivers, you shouldn't even be on the road. The only thing about a bike which is any better than a car, is that, so far, I haven't seen a biker on a mobile phone. In my opinion, they're more dangerous than just about anyone, and when I see it anywhere near me, I most certainly DO become even more vigilant So don't tell me I've got a problem


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 15:59 
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Kim wrote:
I don't have a problem.

[...]

I most certainly DO become even more vigilant So don't tell me I've got a problem


Steady on...

Allow me to give you my personal assurance that Mrs Miggins has EXCELLENT information that will help you stay safe and enjoy driving.

I know that some of the ideas are new to you, but please try to see the bigger picture. When you do, you'll like it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 16:06 
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Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I think that misunderstandings abound in this thread. I'm certainly not going to get all defensive about your suggestion that I ride around making my safety everyone else's responsibility. It is everyone else's responsibility, but that doesn't mean that it isn't also mine. In the same way that I ride carefully and courteously I expect the same from everyone else. We all have a duty of care to each other.

I am not attempting to justify the actions of the lunatic minority, in cars or on bikes, who drive or ride without consideration for other road users. I am, however, attempting to explain to you how you can manage your interaction with all motorcyclists to allow everyone to make smooth, safe progress. Surely that's what we all want?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:23 
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Kim wrote:
My point is that bikes are always (or very often) driving in an erratic/unsafe manner.


Kim wrote:
Actually I said SOME of the morons who ride them, and I'm sure you don't belong in that category, so calm down.


:?

Kim. You've obviously had a bad experience or two with bikes filtering, or is it just that you don't like being passed when you're in a queue? We all ride bikes for different reasons, but one of the advantages to a commuter is the ablilty to move through traffic. Most of us won't squeeze through a gap that's too small and CERTAINLY wouldn't risk contact with a vehicle they were passing - believe me, the kind of contact that would cause a minor scratch to your car would more than likely see us off the bike, especially if it was contact with a handlebar. The amount of observation and awareness required to filter safely is vast and you'll find that most bikers DO make allowances. (Certainly the ones who live to tell the story)

I'm sure most members will agres that everyone is welcome here, no matter what they drive or ride and one of the things that we're about is improving understanding between different groups of road users in order to make the roads safer for all. If you want to learn about bikers and why we do what we do then pull up a chair and pour a cold one. If all you want to do is rant and throw insults about then you won't get much further than most peoples' ignore lists.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:44 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
Most of us won't squeeze through a gap that's too small and CERTAINLY wouldn't risk contact with a vehicle they were passing - believe me, the kind of contact that would cause a minor scratch to your car would more than likely see us off the bike, especially if it was contact with a handlebar.

And I value and love ( :D ) my bike too much to even want the slightest mark on it!

But I can see Kim's POV - the bikers that get noticed, are probably the loony minority that give the rest of us a bad name.

Sixy_the_red wrote:
The amount of observation and awareness required to filter safely is vast and you'll find that most bikers DO make allowances

Definitely agree with this - sometimes, I actually feel exhausted ( :violin: )when I get to my destination if it's involved a lot of filtering, as my concentration levels have been so high.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:52 
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Kim wrote:
Clearly, you wouldn't expect a car to try and pass you on the right hand side when you were indicating to turn right, so why the hell would a bike do it

My bold.

If the car is indicating, then it's the bikers fault. If the car isn't indicating (which is the general rule these days), then it's the car's fault (as I know from personal experience!).

However, the biker should be aware that if there is a turning ahead that a car may turn into, then the biker shouldn't overtake.

Point is, if we all took responsibility for our own actions AND tried to be courteous to all other road users, what a pleasant experience it would be!

Ah, Utopia... :D

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 14:26 
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BottyBurp wrote:
Point is, if we all took responsibility for our own actions AND tried to be courteous to all other road users, what a pleasant experience it would be!


And that is the way it SHOULD be. Everyone just trying to get where they are going with the least amount of stress and agro possible.

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 Post subject: Safe filtering
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 18:45 
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Hi

New member and this is my first post, so bear with me!

As an advanced car and bike rider of numerous years I would say Kim's views are too common to be ignored by bikers.

I ride every day in London. A lot of drivers are ignorant of the how a bike works and there is a lot of merit in making them do a CBT before taking a car test :)

However, as this will never happen, Kim I suggest you take on board Mrs Miggins points and keep looking in your mirrors, even when stationary, and then the bikes will not surprise you.

In addition, if you leave a bit of room in front of you and the next car in the queue, then you will be able to pull slightly left or right to give them room to pass safely and preserve your paint work.

As for oncoming bikes, I would suggest the bikers can see there is often 6 feet to your nearside, which the you (the car driver) do not realise, so moving left is always an option.

Lastly, the advert mentioned above was inaccurate when it said "The rider never saw what killed him" Of course the biker would have seen the car moving, just not be able to avoid it! The message should have been "Lifesavers apply to car drivers as well as bike riders!"

William

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 13:17 
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Kim wrote:
Sorry, but I still don't understand why the ad is blaming the car driver. My point is that bikes are always (or very often) driving in an erratic/unsafe manner.


I'd be interested to see the stats you have to back that claim up...

As the stats I have show that

- motorcyclists are 3 x more likely to take post-test advanced training.
- 80% of urban accidents involving a motorcycle and a vehicle are not primarily caused by the rider.
- Failing to perform a blind spot check before changing lanes causes more accidents than the rider misjudging the gap.
- drivers are twice as likely be responsible than the motorcyclists for accidents that happen while the rider is filtering
- Motorcyclists cause slightly less accidents per bvkm than car drivers, less likey to fail a breath test

your comments suggest that as a car driver you are often suprised to see a motorcycle filtering by. This may be to do with your observation skills?

Its true that there are idiots around - but it important to tar that person and not the form of transport.

Otherwise its the same as me saying all cyclists jump red lights when in reality its only most cyclists in London.

ancient_william wrote:
The message should have been "Lifesavers apply to car drivers as well as bike riders!"


Spot on and welcome - you say your advanced - is that IAM, RoSPA DIA, etc...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 01:19 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
Kim. You've obviously had a bad experience or two with bikes filtering, or is it just that you don't like being passed when you're in a queue? We all ride bikes for different reasons, but one of the advantages to a commuter is the ablilty to move through tr......


Well said :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I understand what Kim is saying in terms of perception. A lot of car drivers do not have an awareness of how much space is around them. Mainly caused by the enormous blind spots in modern vehicles.

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