Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Thu Aug 13, 2020 14:35

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 20:06 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 19:50
Posts: 3369
Location: Lost in the Wilderness
BBC News

Quote:
Police film of 'hooligan' bikers

North Wales Police's chief constable has posted a video of "hooligan" bikers on his web diary to highlight the problem of speeding.
Richard Brunstrom compared the two motorcyclists, filmed from a helicopter riding at nearly 100mph, to an "episode of the Wacky Races cartoon".

The two were later arrested and have since been banned from driving.

However, motorcycling trainer Neil Broughton said the majority of motorcyclists were law-abiding.

He said that the showing the video would not change the actions of a few "idiots".

Mr Brunstrom, well known for his tough stance on speeding motorists, said in his web diary: "The very vocal motorcycle lobby leaps into action at the slightest hint of criticism, no matter how well deserved, with a defensiveness bordering on hysteria."

He added that when the police enforced the law it was met with "reluctant acceptance at best, and all too frequently by outright hostility".

This attitude was, he said, "puzzling".

He said he had included a video clip of an incident on the A55 dual carriageway in north Wales over the summer to illustrate his point.

"These two lunatics from the Stoke-on-Trent area came to the notice of our helicopter crew in June this year.

"Viewers (of the video clip) should note their almost unbelievably crazy antics (which include undertaking on the hard shoulder), reminiscent of an episode of the Wacky Races cartoon."

The men were caught when the police helicopter landed at a service station car park, where the men had stopped to fill up.

Both were banned from driving after admitting dangerous driving and other offences, which Mr Brunstrom called a "good result and thoroughly deserved".

Neil Broughton from the Anglesey Motorcycle Training school - who has 22 years experience as a trainer - said that the chief constable's comments were unfair to the majority of bikers.

'Sympathy'

He said police statistics also failed to show that although bikers did die in accidents, there had been a massive increase in the number of motorcyclists on the roads over the past 10 years and proportionally few had accidents.

"There will always be incidents like this, but showing a video of these two does not change anything. You are always going to have idiots," Mr Broughton added.

"I have sympathy with the families of people who have died in motorcycling accidents, but the figures don't show that statistically there are few accidents compared to the massive number of people now riding motorcycles."

Paul Knight, sales manager with motorcycle traders Bill Smith Motors (Gwynedd) in Bangor added it was important to remember the video featured the actions of two individuals "who would probably have been doing the same thing if they had happened to be driving a car that day".

They were not the actions of "motorcyclists en masse".

Mr Brunstrom said he recognised that the majority of motorcyclists were "decent law-abiding people, given a bad name by the hooligans".

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 21:11 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 00:11
Posts: 764
Location: Sofa
What is NWP's problem with motorcycles? I don't understand their obsession with selecting a group of road users and attempting to demonise them in this way. It's totally counter productive and sets the different groups against each other when cooperation is the way to safer roads. Surely as former head of roads policing for ACPO Brainstorm should know this? Not that a hatred for bikes and bikers is new in North Wales...

First we had 'the rapping DCC' Clive Wolfendale's blog where he suggests that bikes should be banned because he doesn't like the sound they make.

Now we've got that idiot Brunstrom coming out with this sh1t. Yes, they were riding like twats, we can see that. For balance will his next blog make an example of car drivers and tar them all with the same brush he's using here? I doubt it.

As for his closing paragraph where he backtracks and says he doesn't really mean it when he insults all PTW riders? It's not even worthy of contempt. What a load of garbage. The man, and his cronies in North Wales, are nothing more than oxygen thieves.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:49 
Offline
Former Police Officer
Former Police Officer
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 00:27
Posts: 351
Of course they completely ignored the FOUR car drivers who were in the right hand lane when not overtaking.

_________________
Former Military Police Officer and accident investigator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 16:03 
Offline
User

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 09:44
Posts: 516
Location: Swindon, the home of the Magic Roundabout and no traffic planning
Patch wrote:
Of course they completely ignored the FOUR car drivers who were in the right hand lane when not overtaking.


Well spotted. An extremely large gap with no vehicles in the left hand lane. Therefore understandable that they overtook on the left...which is a heinous crime for some stupid reason. Then again, we would have to expect the idiots who lane hog to actually observe other road users if we were allowed to overtake on the left

_________________
"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:36 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 17:17
Posts: 79
I'm as guilty as they are for what those fellas did. how many of you will stand up and admit the same? BUT, banned for dangerous driving? speeding yes but I didn't see anything dangerous in what they did due to the speed they performed their manouvres. I don't understand why people move out to overtake on motorways and dual carriageways miles before they're going to catch up with the vehicle they're approaching. Maybe they lack confidence and believe they wont get out if they leave it too long but they're worrying about drivers that also lack confidence who've moved out even earlier. I've often found the inside lane to be faster when i see the outer lanes clogging up and all the brake lights illuminating.
on the other hand, if all of those in the video were doing the speed limit, including the bikers, would undertaking have been necessary? it would have been nice to see the footage of them doing the hard shoulder riding and anyhting else deemed dangerous, then maybe our sympathies would change?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:14 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 00:11
Posts: 764
Location: Sofa
High speed filtering and using the hard shoulder to overtake on the left aren't part of my normal riding strategy. Sorry.

The film did show both these activities. Perhaps they were moving so fast you missed it?

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:25 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 17:17
Posts: 79
please tell me where in that video they use the hard shoulder. and please make your mind up which camp you're in.

if those muppets want to hog an otherwise empty road then they have to expect to be undertaken.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:28 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 00:11
Posts: 764
Location: Sofa
It's not a question of 'camps'.

The bikers were riding like twats (as I said in my earlier post) but Brunstrom shouldn't be using their poor riding to attack the rest of us.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:31 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 23:42
Posts: 200
Location: Milton Keynes
When I watch the video all I see is ten or fifteen seconds of two bikes undertaking 3-4 cars at modest speed. I can well believe they were exceeding the speed limit, possibly by enough to get them banned, but there was nothing obviously inherently dangerous about it. Am I missing the end of the video showing the 'dangerous' behaviour?

_________________
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:44 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 00:11
Posts: 764
Location: Sofa
The bikes overtake a vehicle in the left hand lane on its left and there's a sustained period of high speed filtering, with the 2nd bike often riding through a closing gap - not very clever.

As a motorcyclist I wouldn't ride like that. Car drivers are pretty unpredictable, particularly when they are surprised. The bikers leave themselves no escape route when performing many of their manouvres, for example the bit time stamped 18:06:15. As is often the case the 2nd rider takes bigger risks than the guy in front just to keep up.

If the footage showed a car switching from lane to lane to enable these overtakes how many would think that was acceptable?

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:53 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Are some of you getting the video from the Police and some of you getting the video from the BBC?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:54 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 00:11
Posts: 764
Location: Sofa
I'm watching the full 20MB version from Brainstorm's blog.

EDIT: Thanks Paul. I've just watched the BBC version :roll: The full version is here.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:28 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 17:17
Posts: 79
thanks for the link, that puts a new perspective on things. using the hard shoulder is stupid but to point out a couple of silly errors to disregard the positives is what i've come to expect from some people. the attitude of the car drivers is only mentioned by a couple of people. the bikers gave them enough chance to pull into an empty lane so they could pass legally. matters not if the cars were doing the speed limit. they should have been in the left most lane, leaving the outer lane empty so the bikes (or other cars for that matter) can pass legally and safely. Over the years I've found car drivers are very predictable. after reading the full blog, those muppets were looking for bother and after the hint about their plates they could have maybe sussed their card had been marked.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:36 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 00:11
Posts: 764
Location: Sofa
Some of the car drivers certainly were hogging the outside lane, but in several cases they were legitimately overtaking when the bikes filtered through.

Overtaking a car on its left while it was being overtaken by a car towing a boat was, frankly, pretty stupid.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:54 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 17:17
Posts: 79
so many of those towing seem to drive the motorways at way over the limit, they obviously have more confidence than intelligence. after seeing first hand what can happen (more so to caravans) at those speeds, I would think twice about over taking one unless i had plenty of room. with a legal overtaking speed of about 4mph, why is the boat trailer in the outside lane? HGV's and anything towing a trailer are limited to 60mph on m/ways and dcw's, though hgv's are restricted mechanically to 56mph.
this is turning into a game of spot the offender :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 13:57 
Offline
User

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 09:44
Posts: 516
Location: Swindon, the home of the Magic Roundabout and no traffic planning
I did the BBC version as well!

_________________
"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 13:43 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:47
Posts: 1511
Location: West Midlands
I didn't see where they used the hard shoulder? And it all looked OK to me - yes, they may have been in excess of the posted limit but it didn't appear dangerous...

Plenty of space behind vehicles, even though they wouldn't move over...

BrainStorm wrote:
He added that when the police enforced the law it was met with "reluctant acceptance at best, and all too frequently by outright hostility".

This attitude was, he said, "puzzling".

Well, perhaps it's the unreasonableness with which speed enforcement is done, when (it would appear) that nothing is done about actual dangerous driving.

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 13:50 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 22:47
Posts: 1511
Location: West Midlands
And! Wait for it!

BrainStorm Also Said wrote:
However there is even more to the story. Some three hours earlier the same two riders had been spotted by a different police officer travelling at 95mph on the westbound carriageway of the A55 in Colwyn Bay through the 50mph limit. They were followed onto the A470, where one of the riders did a ‘wheelie’ (lifting the front wheel off the ground) at 70mph for 100m or so while overtaking another vehicle.

:rotfl: :rotfl:

And?

I've had bikes wheelie past me faster than that, quite safely - what's his point?

_________________
Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 01:48 
Offline
User

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 09:44
Posts: 516
Location: Swindon, the home of the Magic Roundabout and no traffic planning
BottyBurp wrote:
I've had bikes wheelie past me faster than that, quite safely - what's his point?

Apparently thats driving without due care etc....

I would submit that someone doesn't do a wheelie unless they have the SKILL to do it, and they are a damn sight more aware of everthing around them while they are doing it.

BTW, I am crap at them :D

_________________
"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 19:53 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 22:02
Posts: 91
bit bored so did some car counting....in that clip (excluding the bikes) there were 16 vehicles in lane 1 and 18 vehicles in lane 2....

shows you just how clogged up the overtaking lanes are now.....


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.293s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]