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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 18:52 
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:gatso2: From the BBC News -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27032476


A large majority in the European Parliament has approved new rules to make big lorries safer for other road users and more fuel-efficient.

If national governments back the changes, lorries will have to have bigger windows and rounder fronts - rather than the standard "brick" design used for drivers' cabs now.

New designs will tackle the driver's "blind spot", blamed for many deaths.

Groups representing cyclists have urged the UK government to back the changes.

The proposals were backed by 570 MEPs, with 88 against.

London Mayor Boris Johnson, who launched a popular cycle hire scheme in the capital, says he is worried the UK government may oppose the changes.

Cyclist/lorries in London Cyclists in London often have little space to squeeze past heavy traffic
The draft legislation says "a new cab profile will also contribute to improving road safety by reducing the blind spot in the driver's vision, including under the windscreen and to the side of the vehicle, which should help save the lives of many vulnerable road users such as pedestrians or cyclists".

"The new cab profile should therefore, after an appropriate transitional period, become mandatory. This new profile should also incorporate energy absorption structures in the event of a collision."

A more aerodynamic shape at the front would also improve fuel-efficiency, supporters of the legislation argue.

The European Cyclists' Federation says heavy goods vehicles are involved in 18% of fatal accidents on Europe's roads, which cost thousands of lives in the EU every year.

'Life-saving changes'

British Labour MEP Brian Simpson, one of the chief negotiators on the issue, said "we need to make sure that cabs are designed to give drivers a clear view", noting that "lorries are involved in a disproportionately large number of cycle deaths".

If the new design features are approved by the 28 member states' governments they will become compulsory for manufacturers seven years after the new EU directive takes effect.

EU directives do not become law immediately - countries have two years to "transpose" them into national law, after they are published in the EU official gazette.

A British Liberal Democrat campaigner on the issue, Phil Bennion MEP, called the vote a "victory for all the campaigners in the UK who have worked so hard to bring about these life-saving changes to lorry design".

He said he was confident the changes would get government approval later this year, after the May European elections.

Manufacturers will be able to make bigger lorries provided the extra space is used to incorporate safety and aerodynamic features

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 20:18 
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Till legislation changes one design fault ( cyclists attitude to other vehicles) ,little will change. Lorries (and other heavies) carry signs on the nearside rear warning about the dangers of undertaking, yet cyclists still do it. Perhaps it's a case with cyclists as with pedestrians "I can see you ,so logically you MUST be able to see me" . Like the cases of near misses between cars ion supermarket car parks ,it's all down to lack of education and thought and courtesy . Or possibly cyclists think that that lump of plastic on their head is the equivalent of a lucky rabbit foot. If so ,perhaps cyclists might like to contemplate how someone got the "Lucky " rabbit foot. YEP -it came off a DEAD rabbit.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 20:30 
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:gatso2: Botach, no argument from me in relation to your post. Watching this report on the BBC 6 p.m. news, a truckdriver pleaded with cyclists not to approach him on the left hand side when he is turning left. "There is a blind spot. I cannot see you and you will get crushed."

Will cyclists listen? Probably not. They'll carry on ignoring notices stuck to lorries and still get killed. The truckdrivers will be to blame, of course.

I find that if a cyclist wears hi-viz gear, they think that they are not invisible but it doesn't make them invincible.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 22:34 
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CJG- I get it locally with the "joycyclists" who think it OK to go down the near side of cars and hop on /off the pavement to get close to the lights. My answer, if I pass one one of these is to get as close as possible to the pavement, making them get on to the pavement, and use the pedestrian lights to cross the road.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 07:53 
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Frankly I'm rather disappointed at the last two posts, both by the admitted behaviour & the crass generalisations.

As with almost all things in road safety there seem to be three prongs to addressing a problem:
- training / education
- engineering (road & vehicle)
- enforcement
Here is but one prong.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 20:21 
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Ed- you may not like it, but I like my car without scratches down the passenger side .If I follow a cyclist who behaves as a proper road user should, I will pass on the same courtesy. I regularly see idiots trying to pass on the inside of cars/vans/busses and trucks, so I'm not generalising. I was led to believe that PCSO were invented with primary functions ,dog problems and cycle problems. I'd be happier to see them back in harness educating cyclists that the nearside of a vehicle is the sui side along with better vision on all sorts of commercial vehicles. In fact, why stop with correcting vision properties in trucks. It should IMHO be extended down to all sizes of commercial vehicle. Long time ago I adopted a practice at Y junctions of placing a van at right angles to the road I was about to join( and I've heard truckers post on here that it is also common in the trucking world), to enable me to see hazards from my nearside. I still do it as a matter of habit in a car.
Another bit of education might be not to assume that because you can see another vehicle ,the driver can see you , something I was taught as a young cyclist. But then ,educating cyclists is not high on the road safety agenda- no cash in it. Enforcement of cyclist mis behavior- no cash in it, so we'll hit those who we can make a profit out of .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 17:26 
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Quote:
Another bit of education might be not to assume that because you can see another vehicle ,the driver can see you , something I was taught as a young cyclist. But then ,educating cyclists is not high on the road safety agenda- no cash in it. Enforcement of cyclist mis behavior- no cash in it, so we'll hit those who we can make a profit out of .


I remeber our resident cycling and all things road, safety expert...weepy, once writing on here that he thought the signs on the back of HGVs, saying, "If you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you", was just an arrogant way for an excuse for drivers to hit cyclists.

This just shows the lack of common sense we get from these quarters. Anyone with any experience with vans/hgvs would know that you can only see in your mirrors things that are a certain distance behind you....get too close and you disappear....under a bumper if not careful.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 23:41 
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Actually, I think those signs that say "If you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you" might actually be part of the problem! They ought to have another line that says "And even if you CAN see my mirrors, I still might not be able to see you!". A cyclist on the inside of a lorry will almost certainly be able to see his mirrors but could still easily be outside their field of view. The current text creates a false sense of security.


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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 23:44 
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BBC wrote:
:This new profile should also incorporate energy absorption structures in the event of a collision."


I'm sure that'll be very useful with 40 tons of cargo trying to roger you from behind when you hit something!


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 00:01 
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And even in something like a Transit, you need to pack the rear carefully to stop things doing just that. In the older ones it was just a sheet of ply, so I always strapped anything I could to the bulkhead to act as protection .Fortunately after that FORD provided a metal bulk head, but whether that was for security or driver protection I don't know.

On to the one about mirrors. great that cyclist on the inside can see mirrors, but on a lot of modern forward control you need to swing late to get round. And with forward placed wheels the front end can turn sharply. But even how many car drivers know that.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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