Safe Speed Forums

I refer to Muslim Women Driving wearing a Veil, come on now how can they see anything other than straight ahead, surely they would have no peripheral vision at all and are a danger to other Drivers?

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Welcome to the UK, the Land of "Selective Freedoms"

A fair point, but wouldn't that also apply to a crash helmet?

The hijab is generally a head scarf/cowl with the niqab a veil often worn below the eyes. They and the wearing of them vary widely between people of differing sects and national cultures. Most versions seem to give plenty of peripheral vision with some ( fabric over the eyes) probably interfering to a certain extent with vision ( as do sunglasses )

I'm not a Muslim but travel widely and find it the recent focus on this religious garment strange. But I've got to admit negotiating with some Qatari immigration officer wearing one certainly gives them the edge when you can't see their facial expression.

The other edge is that they could be ugly as sin and only they ( and their husband) knows

Prof beard - Good point about the crash helmet. In rallying some organsers ask crews to remove them on the road sections believing the wearing to be illegal. There are no laws prohibiting wearing them ( and no MSA regs either). I believe most competion and motor cycle open face helmets give about 160-170 degrees peripheral vision which is more than most of us have with our eyes.

I had a very interesting conversation with one of my students today. We have several girls that wear the hijab as part of their uniform (which is permitted - the niqab is not...)
I am a first-aider in the school and, whilst treating her for a wrist-strain injury she recieved playing netball, I asked her "What would I do if, God forbid, you had recieved a severe electric shock and I had to perform CPR (cardio-pulmonary resuscitation) on you, when it is forbidden for you to have physical contact with a man who is not of your family, or your husband?"
Her reply was (for me, as an atheist), curiously touching.

"God would look into your heart to see that you were helping me. His hand would guide you in your skills and nothing improper would occur. He has placed you here, as He has all of us, to serve his purpose and, if part of that purpose is to save someone from death, that is His will..."

There are a very few times that I wish I could believe... it all becomes so much simpler...

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Aquila



Licat volare si super tergum aquila volat...

In days of gender equality wearing the veil in male company could be considered insulting and discrimminatory. What if the veil were only worn in front of certain races? They'd be a right hoo-ha. Watching a group of veil wearing women on question time I found it moderately amusing these women from a distance looked like the classic image of an ira terrorist of old which I think is why people find it disturbing. As long as they're free to choose and those that don't are denigrated or bulllied in any way then I don't see a real problem with it.

I suspect the govt is getting its hair off because with your face covered you can't be identified with their automated enforcement of varying types. If everyone wore a veil it would make issueing camera fines rather tricky

I wonder if muslim women are just extra ugly if they have to have their faces hidden and their men folk are just embarassed by being married or related to such mingers? The whole veil idea could just be down to preserving male ego

That could actually become a serious and divisive issue if the government sought to ban people from driving wearing masks so that cameras could identify drivers.

However, IME breaking the speed limit (or even approaching it) is a concept unknown to veiled women drivers

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Maybe thats why in some Muslim countries women are not alowed to drive...

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Speed camera policy Kills

a crash helmet though is designed to be used in drivingand so created to be the smallest amount intrusive as possible. It also is connected only to the head and so moves with it. the garments are not designed with driving in mind, have much, much smaller eye slits and are flowing over the upper body, they must to some extent obscure the eyes as you move your head becasue they will drag against the upper body.

call me a pervert but when i see a fully veiled muslim women i imagine the Ann Summers underwear underneath

I'd say 'optimist' was nearer the mark.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
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maybe a perverted optimist then

Does that apply to seeing their face ?

If so , you can understand how some muslim blokes are upset - imagine it on your wedding day - lifting the veil and not liking what you see ---a lot ,if not all of their weddings are arranged,are they not?

No .. because this has been ergonomically designed.


We listened to the Vine prog on Wednesday for his first hour which focussed on this issue.

A white Vine female researcher wore the garment for a week to find out what it was like to wear it. She said the garment made her face "itch" and that when typing at her computer work station .. her sight was restricted as she could only see the folds of the black garment if she cast her eyes down and to the side. If you look at the photo of the teacher on the front pages of all tabloids .. this would look to be the case.

This is also verified by a Manchester Evening News reporter who donned the veil for a shopping trip to the Trafford Centre (Oct 7 issue - centre-fold special)

She also said her eyelashes caught against the facial shroud and made her eyes itch. Does not bode well then for obsercation skills and can lead to tunnel vision.

She said that the only freedom it gave her was that of not wearing make up as "none would see the face without the lippy and blushers" and she did not need to style her hair.

Now .. we know that "Inspired" got a feel good factor in time of need just by "doing her hair" . I know from my own wife, daughters, sisters and mother that wimmin do get a lot of satisfaction from a pride in appearance and personal grooming. And let's face it.. we blokes have a similar self respect.

Letters in the press are cast another slant on this issue from a host country's point of view:

1. A driving examiner wrote to the tabloids claiming that he would only agree to testing a Muslim woman if she revealed her face to him. She would only agree to this in private.. but for him it was essential to sheck her photo on her licence matched the person turning up for a driving test.

2. Another letter in a tabloid national (Waily Mail) described how the writer spent time in Egypt - a Muslim country which forbids this garment as it frightens tourists and no one can actually tell the gender. For all they know a man could be disguised in this way and be ogling foreign wimmin changing into bathing suits [/i]

3. Another paper reported that a man staged a protest by wearing a balaclava concealing his face. He was arrested. You could argue this was "racist and sexist" towards him

4. BBC2 News night interviewed a Muslim who did not want to give his identity. He was dressed in this same head dress.

5. People hard of hearing and children rely on lip reading and facial expression to understand another person. They cannot do so if the person refuses to reveal their face.

6. The whole facial veiling co-incided with the defeat of the taliban who insisted on this garment. One can only conclude that this "choice" indicates some form of extremism, support or simply just a disapproval of the army presence in Afghnistan and Iraq in our current situation with the Middle East.

7. Our problem is that we do not know if male or female.

But then.. let's look on the positive side here.

[i] The authorities insist on copping all drivers by taking photos and are now taking photos which they claim identify the full facial features of the driver.

I think a lot of "Muslim wimmin" may take to driving as a result ...

However, perhaps the French are right by banning all such symbols for ALL religions from schools and hospitals.



The French stance did start when a woman died because her husband would not allow a male doctor to attend her. By the time the French had recalled a woman surgeon back.. the lady had died.

I do have to see a face in any case as comlexion, tongue, breath and general facial demeanour do tell me rather a lot about the patient's general health.

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I remember commenting on this years back when there were less muslims in the country and it was still acceptable to openly criticise them.

I complained of one almost merging into the side of me and then later got the chance to observe the fact that as she moved her head left and right, all the headgear stayed in the same place so you had no hope of doing a shoulder check.

This is totally different from a crash helmet, where this issue does not occur.

Presumably if the police wern't being accused of racism all the time, you could pull people wearing this particular garment for driving without due care and attention.

LUM- one question - was that to say that you could not tell( from the position of her head) if she was looking ahead or anywhere else ??


Answer yes - how did driving examiner tell she was looking in mirror .And if he could not - why did she pass

Would suggest that perhaps "Driving with impared vision " might be a more accurate offence.

I think it was more that the seatbelt was holding down the various garments such that they wouldn't move with the rest of you, so if you moved your head around to the left you'd be looking at cloth.

I guess that's why so many of them don't bother to wear seatbelts?

Yep - when i see them driving i think of the post re driving in India .

Not necessarily,

http://www.ameinfo.com/95488.html

Thats a fair few frillies.
fatboytim