Safe Speed Forums

I recently read a report in the Daily Telegraph, in which it is announced that Gordon Brown is to show his "green credentials" - by increasing the price of both petrol and diesel.

What's so new and green about that? Governments have been raising fuel duties and using motorists as a milch cow for decades. The fact that he intends to increase diesel duties belies the green motive. If diesel duties were relaxed, more people would buy diesel powered cars, which are much more fuel efficient. (As an example, a friend of mine has just sold her petrol powered VW Polo 1.2 (55bhp) in which she got ~40mpg, and now drives a Skoda Fabia 1.9 TDi (100bhp) and is getting ~68mpg.) And, given that more diesel than petrol can be produced from the same volume of crude oil, the nation's motoring needs could be met using much less crude oil than is currently the case.

With fuel prices in Britain amongst the highest in the world, does Gordon really believe that people are making wasteful journeys which they will no longer make if the fuel price goes up? I doubt that such a rise will deter the Chelsea Tractor drivers!

Gordon has himself said that he'd like to wean Britain off petrol, and begin a push for other fuel technologies like E85. So it's funny that there is never any talk of incentives for these alternative fuels; only disincentives to use conventional fuels.

A friend of mine living in Somerset tells me that there are only about FIVE outlets selling E85 in the west country. If I were Gordon Brown, and I was sincere about the green motive for altering motoring taxation, I would introduce a zero rate tax disc for E85 vehicles registered in 2007 and 2008. That would get E85 into the public eye and more people would start using it. As things stand, the tax disc IS slightly cheaper for an alternative fuel vehicle. My diesel car is in band D and I pay £135 for a 12 month tax disc. For an alternative fuel vehicle, the Band D tax disc costs £125.

It is clear that with so few E85 pumps around, the treasury is not going to lose a fortune by giving a tax break to drivers of E85 vehicles. I'm disappointed that Gordon doesn't see it that way. But then I'm not a socialist!

DVLA Vehicle Duty Rates

You'd also think that a Green Mr Brown would come to his senses WRT veggie oil as a fuel for compression-ignition engines. It meets the criteria to be biodiesel for tax purposes, yet HMRC are adamant that the full tax as a fuel subsitute is due even though pure vegetable oil is less harmful to the environment than EN14214 biodiesel produced by transesterification.

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Will

I think we are well overdue for another major fuel tax protest.

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Speed camera policy Kills

I think I am right in saying that a diesel engine is no more effecient that a petrol engine. Diesel has a high specific weight that petrol and therefore contains more energy, which is why diesel powered cars get mor mpg's. People confuse mpg for effeciency, which is grams of fuel used per kilowatt hour.

As my biggest creditor I am in the process of pening or should that be key boarding, a letter to Mr G. Brown to see if there are ways that reduce my bill. After all he would happiely import cheap food from abroad putting me out of a job, He was happy enough to see those car workers loose their jobs in the name of cost cutting. What's good for the goose and all that lot...

Yes, I think a given volume of diesel oil has about 17% more energy than the same volume of petrol. The amount of energy should not be confused with the rate of combustion! But the fuel efficiency can be about 42% better than the equivalent petrol engine - using the example quoted by Ford in the ad for the Focus diesel.

Also remember that all modern diesels have turbochargers (originaly fitted to reduce polution) which act to recover exhaust heat which would otherwise be wasted. Turbos increase energy efficiency for this very reason.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Well, it doesn't recover the heat...it uses the momentum of the hot gases to drive the turbine....ultimately, the heat is lost.
In any case, the chancellors green revolution is only about maintaining revenue....as more people switch to higher mileage per litre diesels, less fuel is being used. Less fuel equals less revenue, so revenue from diesel has to be higher than from petrol to recover the tax lost due to the switch from petrol engined vehicles. Which is also why biodiesel is never going to be zero tax

This is because fuel is charged per unit volume rather than per unit weight or per therm.

I think you're talking about that "smog pump" that was fitted to American cars with catalytic converters in the 70s/80s. I don't know exactly how it worked except that it was belt driven, but it had something to do with pumping a portion of the exhaust gas back into the engine to be burned up.

Come to think of it, it sounds like a ruminating cow, or rabbits eating pellets etc.

That wouldn't be exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) would it? If so, it's there to lower combustion temperature and so inhibit the formation of oxides of nitrogen (NOx). See http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-7120.html for more info but the basic theory is that since diesel don't have air throttles (they control power by adjusting the amount of fuel), except for full throttle conditions there will always be excess oxygen in the combustion chamber, which means a leaner mixture, which results in higher combustion temperature. By introducing an inert gas (i.e. the exhaust, which with EGR working properly has little or no oxygen), you reduce the amount of oxygen available for combustion, and so restore the ratio of fuel to oxygen to the optimum, and thus reduce the combustion temperature.

HTH,

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Will

WillCove

Yes, I think the EGR is the modern day equivalent of the smog pump. The EGR is clearly designed for engines with fuel injection, whereas the smog pump was used on vehicles with normally aspirated engines.

EGR was first introduced in the 1970s in the US. It consisted of a vacuum operated valve that sat between the inlet manifold and the exhaust riser. It was used to improve idle emissions on engines fitted with a carb. i know this because I had a 1970s small block chevy engine with a factory Rochester quadrajet carb. It took gas from the manifold heater riser from the exhaust port and directed it into the inlet plenum.

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Speed camera policy Kills

Gizmo - that sounds like the "PCV Valve". PCV stood for Pollution Control Valve. I still think the smog pump was something else.

Nope.........

http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/egrvalve.htm

http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/vac-egr.htm

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Speed camera policy Kills

California had more stringent emissions limits than the rest of the USA.

Motor manufacturers put a pump on California spec. vehicles to pump air into the exhaust to dilute the exhaust gases and thus lower the percentage emissions.

I can't believe he's managed to fly the "green" flag with this latest round of duty increases. Surely if it's all about the environment he should be persuading people to switch to more environmentally friendly fuels?

Nope - not our Gordon. He increased duty on biodiesel as well by 1.25p a litre, and added over 3p to a litre of LPG.

So how is that showing "green credentials" ? increasing the duty on environmentally friendly alternatives by more than double the amount he's putting on petrol. Nice one.

Gordon Brown gives not a chuff about the environment, only about revenue, and it'll be ten times worse when he's prime minister.

I'm really looking forward to the Labour canvassers knocking my door for the Scottish elections next year looking for my vote. I'll politely tell them that I voted for them last time and am now hanging my head in shame for doing so.

Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) is a fossil fuel and should be taxed as such for consistency, however bio-diesel and bio-ethanol should have duty reduced dramatically to encourage more use and increased supply - including a proportional reduction for mixes so that 5% ethanol petrol which most cars can use unmodified would be cheaper that straight petrol. It would would be a positive step towards reducing our dependency on fossil fuels - even if you don't believe a word about AGW the reduction in dependency on a fuel source that we have to import has to positive for the UK as whole.

That would have shown a slight hint of green in his policies; by increasing duty on them all he is proving to anybody with half a brain that Brown has no green credentials at all.

E85 should be taxed much less, on a green agenda. The plant and vegetation that is used to produce E85 takes in CO2 as it grows, which balances the amount of CO2 output when the fuel is burnt.

It will have to be, fuel consumption is about 10% higher when running on E85. The raw material cost is higher so Gordan will take a considerable hit.

I am sure that these issues are being taken into consideration on road pricing proposals. When he can no longer justify the fuel duty on "green" fuels he will hit you on the mileage instead.

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Speed camera policy Kills

The system they have in New Zealand works something like this. There is only one type of diesel fuel - they don't bother having "red diesel" and "white diesel". It's all the same stuff, whether you're powering a car, boat, or tractor. However, car drivers pay tax on the mileage they drive above a certain tax-free mileage threshold.