Safe Speed Forums

Traveling home today on a NSL road, good clear conditions and moderate to light traffic. Road has several straight sections as well as smooth corners that are easily and safely taken at the "limit" even with heavy traffic (and indeed 70-80 when lighter traffic and conditions allow)

Anyway, in front of me was a Volvo police car (T5?). In front of that, an M-Reg Vauxhall Astra being driven at 35-40 mph regardless of the fact that the conditions were near-perfect. After following for 3 miles, the Volvo took advantage of a clear straight to pass and get straight up to 60-65mph, as did myself and one of the ever-growing queue of traffic behind us.

So my question is...why on earth didn't the police stop this driver? His "progress" made myself and passengers wonder a few things:
- was the driver drunk?
- was the car defective and as such unstable over 40mph?
- did the driver know what speed they were doing?
- were the driver's reactions so poor that he had to travel at this speed?
- as above, but for eyesight.

Why didn't the police want to answer these questions themselves? Any ideas / experience of this. What would you do if you were a BIB in this situation?

On roads such as you describe where you'd expect a half-decent driver in a half-decent car to be willing and able to go a bit faster than they actually are doing, I find myself giving their wheels a quick check to see if they're running on a space-saver...

_________________
Chris

No space saver, not that myself or 3 passengers were able to spot anyway.

There is no law AFAIK that requires drivers to drive at the speed limit if safe to do so. Yes, if you are driving so slowly that you end up causing a major obstruction, you can be prosecuted for DWD&A, and such cases have occurred. But unless there is a massive tailback I do not see that any offence has taken place.

If I am taking my elderly parents out for a drive in the country, I will adopt a different driving to being on a long-distance cross-country journey.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

No, but it does raise the question as to why they're not keeping up with the flow - it could just be them wanting a nice sedate cruise through some beautiful scenery, or them looking for an address in an unfamiliar location, but more often than not it's on a stretch of road where neither of these (or any other sensible alternative) are the case, which then leads to consideration of it being a mechanical problem, a driver ability problem, a driving under the influence problem... There's also the point that if you drove like that during your test, it'd not go down too well with the examiner.

_________________
Chris

because he wasn't riding a bike and therefore he can't possibly have been obstructing traffic.

I think everyone is being rather unfair; there are a lot of drivers who just don't feel capable in themselves at higher speeds. Do we ban them all ? No I don't think so , but I do think there needs to be a programme for education in the driving test and also in the Highway Code, maybe even on 'tele' like we used to have, whereby slow drivers are encouraged to move over or stop to let their 'Wagon Train' pass them.

My father always said 'let the faster man through' as he had been taught by BSM instructors in around 1944. I always pull over or let a person past who obviously wants to go faster than me, even if it's higher than the limit. I'm sure this attitude would lead to greater safety and fewer accidents.

_________________
Good manners maketh a good motorist

My mum got pulled over by the police once. She is not a fast driver and was following a horse box along the A5 near Western Park, which is not that handy to overtake on. She decided that it wasn't that much further to go so she would just sit behind singing along to the radio. The policemen advised her to over take the horses and get a move on because she was causing a queue . Good on him I say.

that maybe so but it doesn't explain why they don't bother slowing down in the 30mph zones.

Assuming she was leaving a large enough gap between her and the horsebox to allow following traffic to 'bunny hop', I don't have a problem with that - I do that some times.

As for slow drivers, if someone's faculties are so poor that they can't maintain the speed limit when conditions permit then they shouldn't be on the road. Simple. As has been stated, you fail your driving test for 'failure to make progress' so this should apply for all motorists. If they can't see / think well enough to make 60mph then I'd be worried about what else they're not capable of seeing / thinking of.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

But it is not compulsory to drive at the speed limit whenever conditions permit. It may well be that people can, but choose for various reasons not to.

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

People should be allowed to drive slowly if they wish, but they should pull over once in a while and let people past. I'd feel so guilty if I had a queue behind me.

The artic I followed at 15-25mph up a country lane for three miles on Friday (I think looking for a farm as he almost stopped as he passed each one) clearly didn't feel guilty about having five cars behind him the whole way.....

It's worth reposting Paul Ripley's well-known piece on this subject:

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

M reg car? He may have had a problem and was having to "limp it to a garage"

Many years ago ...(was when I was based down South ) .. came across a smilar instance. Stopped the driver as a huge queue had formed by this time .. I moved him to a lay-by ... and his face was quite a picture as he counted aound 30 cars starting to accelerate


Was anything illegal? Nope. His car was elderly and had suddenly developed a spluttering (dirty carburettor appeared to be culprit) He was limping it to a garage .. but "did not think of pulling over occasionally" to let the growing queue of impatient drivers pass him..

I simply escorted him to the nearest garage at the time.

But you know .. some drivers are new or inexperienced and others aggressive. Most of us fall thankfully in-between and have more "good drive days" than "bad ones"

Getting aeriated with the timids and indecisives will not help - only make them even more "indecisive" and may even cause them to make that fatal error

A real expert driver simply increases his gap margin and applies a keener COAST to the situation

Retaliating to Mr Aggressive also makes matters worse. If Mr Cutter-In is insistent that he will have that space from you.. then nothing is achieved by blocking him. Just let him in and diffuse it with a wave. After all.. you cannot change a person in the other driving seat from YOUR driving seat - but you can maintain a safety margin for you and yours. (I can if in uniform as can the lads and lasses in uniform out there .. but that's a different matter )


What is sad is that we are less tolerant when driving than when face to face. This intolerance also manifests itself on these chat-room fora where the ad-hominem attacks, the vulgar abuse and petty malice for the sake of it is posted.

But as with all peronality or attitude disorders .. it does take time and effort to overcome this. However, there are great rewards in trying to quell and control this: you understand the true value of co-operation and friendliness with a positive "feel good feedback" After each drive.. just sit back and evaluate how whatever you did might have affected that other road user .. and all driving plans should consider how the other person will be affected by your drive anyway.

It is also being aware of your limits and the car's limits too.

Even the police have accidents though..

Stats from last couple of years seems to reveal the following:


Lack of attention 40%

Loss of control in pursuit situation 15%

Loss of control in an emergency situation - 12%

Going too fast - 5%

Lack of care whilst reversing 20%

Miscellaneous 8%


Level of training seems at odds with accident ratio .. and those who are general without training seem to have less training. We came to the conclusion that perhaps the accident ratio here was due to higher pressure and demand to respond - plus a cerain amount of red mist or trying to exceed actual capabilities. In other words.. it is our mental approach which is the prime cause of all incidents .. and this applies to police as well as all members of the public. I do not and will never say that because a police officer had the benefit of some rather rigorous training .. this somehow makes him a "superhuman" ... we are still back to COAST values anyway.

Thus.. it is still - as siad umpteen times over on this board - [i] attitudesand skill development /i] which need to be an integral and continuous part of using our roads - and we have to be brutally honest with any self-assessment of ourselves too.

And why, referring to another news story on this board, if fines for any traffic offence are to be used to improve road safety .. then this cash should be used on comprehensive training and even road engineering.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Increasing numbers of people have been brainwashed by this "speed kills" stuff, and feel that whatever inappropriately low speed they choose to drive at must therefore be the maximum safe speed. More than once I have perfectly safely overtaken such people only to be hooted at and flashed. As I am driving at a speed in excess of what they consider to be a "safe" speed, I am therefore being "reckless".

_________________
Brian

Yet again (ad nausium) I'm NOT saying that the limit is a target, I'm saying that if someone isn't capable of maintaining a reasonable speed for the conditions then they aren't fit to drive. We're talking about the same people who do 45mph on a perfectly clear motorway causing a major hazard.

_________________
Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

When I was learning to drive I was taugt to drive 'top the limit' and i'd be rebuked (word of the day) if my driving was below the limit without good reason.

I only did my test 3 1/2 years ago, and they told me that doing 40 in a perfectly clear stretch of NSL would probably get you failed.

Driving too slowly IS a danger, since it leads to people doing stupid things in order to overtake. You might say that it's the overtaker's fault (and it probably is, mostly), but driving slowly for conditions means more overtaking.

Worst thing I ever saw was some 70-something on the A49. There is one overtaking place in about 10 miles, and as soon as we got alongside he decided to put his foot down; went from 40 to 70mph to stop us overtaking. As we were in a Fiesta 1.1 we had to stop..

Seriously, what goes through these people's minds?!?

Is it ego (clearly it is), or are they in such a rush that one car moving away from them in front is going to slow them down too much (in which case why are they going so slowly)?

They need to realise that whatever their motivation, their actions are attempting to drive another motorist into a head-on collision with who-knows-what, with potential loss of life! Once they have realised this, they need to wind their necks in and stop driving like pr*cks!!

IMHO, it is unpredictable driving patterns that we should be more worried about.

Doing 40 in an NSL may be a bit slow, but it really is not that slow and also, if maintaned as a constant speed, it makes overtaking pretty easy.

I don't see an issue with that.

I am more worried about drivers that "think" to be fast, yet drive in such a way that when a faster driver approaches, create more problems by making it unpredictable to overtake. They fail to see the vehicle behind is faster.

It happens all the time on trackdays, people just don't use their mirrors!