Safe Speed Forums

I've had to think long and hard before posting this and I put the disclaimer in that im not a troll or spoiling for a fight

While I am in full agreement with the majority of users on here that cameras be they gatso, specs, talivans, etc are purely a money making scam and not a safety aid I do feel (as hard as it is to say) that specs cameras used correctly at roadworks do actually do their job.

When speed limits have genuinley been lowered to protect the workforce and are correctly signed etc the majority of traffic will still be travelling faster than the posted limit with the occasional driver exceeding it by quite a margin. In my experience the specs system does cut the speed of all traffic for the stretch of road "patrolled" by the cameras

I know it raises other dangers - preoccupation with the speedo, bunching of traffic, slower differential speeds etc but I am curious what other peoples views are on this matter.

Chris

With the limits in place and cameras active 24/7 and during bank holidays when the 'workforce' are simply not present most of that time or whern the 'workforce' are hard at work on scaffolding beneath the motorway, its difficult to give credence to these things as other than money making scams first and foremost.

_________________
Richard Ceen
We live in a time where emotions and feelings count far more than the truth, and there is a vast ignorance of science (James Lovelock 2005)

The one time I've driven through specs monitored roadworks in a car without any speed controlling gizmos was horrible. I'm sure I'd get used to it, but I must say I spent a lot less time concentrating on not driving into construction workers*, and a lot more wondering how everyone else seemed happy to go about 5mph faster than me.

Trouble is 40 mph almost seems set so low in order to try and catch people speeding - I'd be interested to see some stats on whether it makes roadworks any safer than 50 which used to be the norm and feels more 'right' in contrafllows



(* Not that any were to be seen doing any work, obviously)

If memory serves me right somewhere there is a DfT report showing that roadworks with cameras were more dangerous than those without, no doubt Paul will be along to direct us to it.

Apart from this a lot of roadworks also have concrete barriers in place - I doubt that even hitting them at 100mph would put the workforce in any danger at all.

And of course - how often do you ever actually see any workers at roadworks??

_________________
Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

It is on the Safe Speed site

TRL595 - "Safety performance of traffic management at major motorway road works"

I think the study showed that roadworks with SPECS were marginally safer than those with no cameras, which were significantly safer than those with more 'conventional' camera types.

As rightly pointed out, however, the highways agency or their contractors seem perfectly happy to deploy a forest of cones, an army of SPECS cameras, and then hardly do any work on the road under their protection!

I know it sounds like hyperbole, but I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw workers on the motorway, despite loads of roadworks areas. I would definately remember because it would be so remarkable. It could be down to my preoccupation with the speedo through the SPECS, but I'd like to think not.

Really theres two seperate issues here. Roadworks should not be set up/left in place when works are not actually being undertaken. SPECS cameras do seems to make roadworks safer, but the question is for whom?

Not quite.

Analogue speed cameras 55% increase

Digital speed cameras 4.5% increase (i.e. SPECS)

Police patrols 27% reduction

Even allowing for some error in the figures, doing nothing is slightly better than installing SPECS.

Done the M1 - bit around J10 -?? SEVERAL TIMES - always felt that i was devoting too much time to speedo watching for my peace of mind. On one occasion , travelling in convoy- last van got tailwacked as he slowed down to comply ---by damage we estimate was hit at about 30mph + ---and of course no witnesses .

I came back that way from Dover a week ago, and travelled 7 miles through road works with all three lanes clear (only the hardshoulder was coned off), NOBODY working, and a 40 SPECS monitored limit, at 3.00 am!

No speed controlling gizmo, just a steady right foot, and keen sense of hearing!
I was dead on 40 all the way through, and passed at least twenty or so cars who were below 35 just in case.

We encountered more on the M25 too, as well as the hoo hah around the Dartford crossing where going down, we had been convoyed by a police car through the tunnel at a ridiculousy low speed - thankfully they couldn't be bothered on the return!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

My civil engineer mate tells me that a frequent reason for cameras when there is no workforce is to allow concrete to harden.

It seems that the concrete used to hold central barriers, lamp posts, signs etc in place does not set properly for some considerable time.

Which in turn means that a collision, even a glancing blow, could mean collapse of the barrier and/or lamp post.

TBH, I worry more for the people than some replaceable structure.


I don't have a problem with slowing down for motorway road works. What I do mind is having to do less than 40 (many don’t know by how much their speedos over-read) for a prolonged time on a featureless motorway during darkness. It is widely accepted that fatigue is a big problem for night drivers. I reckon it is far better to relax the limit when the workmen are not present such that drivers would spend less time in the less unstimulating environment (double whammy) - or reduce the length of the works!

_________________
Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I seriously hope this isn't true!

Criminalising safe drivers to protect wet concrete, whatever next?!

Well It looks like i was correct that they DO reduce speed through roadworks sections BUT it seems they dont increase saftey going by the fugures above!.

As devils advocate - Is there a study into the severity of the crashes - ie there may be more on specs areas but fewer injuries due to the redueced speed?

Also on a related note - why don't the unions that the "workforce" belong to have something to say about scamarati making the workplace a more dangerous place purely to rake in some cash?

The figures recorded are almost certainly KSIs (killed or seriously injured) purely for the reason that lesser prangs are often not reported, so figures based on them would include a large margin of error.

My experience of driving through these zones is that traffic bunches up and lane changing becomes impossible, so if anything does happen, you have no margin of safety or escape route. PLUS you have to stay focussed on your speedo.

Normally. people are going to have more time and space to react before crashing and slam the anchors on.

Yes, there is a study. Also in TRL595. See page: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/trl595.html and scroll down to the section titled: "Casualty severity and speed cameras".

The proportion of serious crashes was 32% higher in road works with cameras, compared to 'all road works'.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Which would presumably mean that the discrepancy between non-camera and camera roadworks is greater than 32%!

the worst aspect of specs controlled zones is that they tend to create a blockage immediatley after rteh last camera as the more powerful lorries speed up to 56 and the less powerful trundle up meaning all non restricted traffic is in the outside lane, also on the M6 at stafford the current set up has the last cameras oputise of the "roadworks" in a small section of normal motorway, with the end of roadworks signage in plain view,

Yeah. I can't remember why I didn't calculate that out, but I'm guessing that the figures required aren't in the report. I'll have another look.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'm not so sure about that statement. There are currently specs cameras on the M3 intersection with the M25 and I have observed drivers tail-gating any vehicle which is taller than the vehicle they are driving. Now I'm not talking a couple of feet off the back bumper of the preceding vehicle, but six inches or less. Dangerous enough in itself, but when you have a line of four or more vehicles all looking like a vehicular version of a fairground slide then you can see why so many of the accidents result in more KSI's.

_________________
Prepare to be Judged