Safe Speed Forums

Hi and

Given that just about everyone all over the world speeds at some point it may be more pertinent to ask why do some not speed.

Upon inspection, this minority would most likely reveal themsleves to be, "a liar or a menace".


In fact, does anyone know of a country or place which has got their road safety policies right, in terms of efficiency and safety, which could serve as a good model to the rest of the world?

Between all of us here at SS, there can't be many countries that at least one of us haven't been to. So I just wondered, if there were a top ten list, which country would be at number one?

For instance, I once read that in Germany you have to go through a difficult and very expensive driving test after which if you are involved in an accident within your first year you have to go through the whole time trouble and expense again. It produces better drivers. We often extol the virtues of better training here so, without wishing to be ageist, if it's the under 25s which are most dangerous - isn't Germany on to something there? Do you know if this is true WildCat?

Actually, I'd like to know the worst too? My friend said that in Italy, for instance, they may have 50 fatalities on their roads in a weekend but treat it almost as part of life. We get one fatality over here and a dozen cameras go up in the area.

Anyone been to Japan? If their road policies and driving are like their products I should have thought they'd be second to none.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Why do people ever speed?

Ever been for a relaxing drive, where you're not rushing about and just enjoying the journey? Ever then realised that you are breaking the speed limit without knowing it? That's because some speed limits are so low that driving at a relaxing pace is too fast, and you need concentration to keep your speed down, rather than concentration to maintain a faster speed safely.

If speeding is so natural along a certain stretch of road it's not the drivers' fault, but the local authorities', for implementing a speed limit that isn't sensible.

All the time matey all the time....


No...that must be an un-nerving experience for you to realise that you are NOT as in control of your vehicle as you thought you were....


Personally I would think that whether on a work-a-day journey or a 'spin' in the countryside CONCENTRATION on one's driving is paramount in both instances.



It is a concious effort to press that right foot a little further down that instigates going faster...if you don't pay attention to your driving I concede you can 'switch off' and wander over the limit....But that wouldn't be what I would consider a safe thing to do.
The only 'natural' thing about it (IMHO) is the ease with which that right foot can be depressed.
But that's just me...I suppose your point could apply to those who don't pay attention all the time whilst driving....

I've just re-read my response above and find it may be misconstrued as I don't ever break the speed limit myself...Of course I do...but it is by design not an accident or a concentration lapse.
Sorry if anyone got any other impression.

Edit for spelling

No sweat - you're amongst friends


I ask myself what's it all leading to?

The service I work in, (the NHS), - Doctors, SLT's, OT's, Ambulance Drivers, Ancillary workers etc. all or most have points on their licences and are on the verge of losing their licence. Some have already left the country. Others say good riddance to them, it appears to be a source of amusement to some Whereas I see the hole it leaves

In other walks of life - Fire servicemen and women on the verge of being banned. Drivers who need their licence for a living, working in logistics, food transport and all manner of essential goods and services to maintain a functional society. Let's not forget the simple feel good factor from owning and enjoying your chosen mode of transport with the independence, mobility and interest it provides.

How about friends and family of the pro-scamera starting to get points and being banned, (at this point I would like to think the message would start to hit home, but the pro-scamera are the sort who would sell their own grandmother for a dime, allegedly;))

And then, on a joy-ess day, the pro-scamera themselves will get caught in their own snare. Of course, well before we reach that point their lives will have been disrupted to the point of an anarchic state.

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Remember that the sort of speeding where Police are caught in the act is generally much faster than your normal member of the public with points, and use the excuse of testing their abilities or car.

I remember trying to shop a cop for jumping a red light without lights or sirens. It boiled down to "It was my word against his", and I couldn't prove it. If the boot were on the other foot...

Indeed, you also have to wonder about the mentality of people who get caught speeding by a machine.

OK I concede that some may well be not as visible as they like to say they are, but we aren't talking about the odd lapse are we? In cases where there are multiple points lost for speeding offences you have to wonder why? More so if someone gets caught by the same camera more than once!
Are these people just breaking the limit in protest of speed cameras and to hell with the consequences... or are they (my particular belief) they are not as safe as they like to think they are?

We hear how safe we are all driving quoted left right and centre on these and other boards...strangely safety or indeed COAST seemingly, doesn't entail paying sufficient attention to the road to be able to spot a camera and adjust your speed to comply with the limit...Concentration, Observation, Anticipation, Space and Time...none of those principals are being observed in instances where people 'slam on' because they see a speed camera.
I would argue that in most cases of peeps being flashed by a speed camera..COAST is merely an acronym to be used in forum posts.

I have to say I agree that if you're paying full and proper attention then there really is very little excuse (in most cases) for getting pinged by a fixed camera.

I will say this. I don't choose to exceed the limit at any given time, I choose to ignore my speedo as it doesn't usually tell me anything useful. I don't choose to break the law, I just choose not to not break it.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Ahh, you mention police...

When you join the police force you have an induction which, among many other things, you are educated in the field of prejudice. Given RB's open feelings and response towards motorbikes, I've been trying to see if the cap fits his head.

Prejudice: Any unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=prejudice

If he is indeed prejudiced towards the national group of motorcyclists then, (not only for this reason of course), doesn't it bring further into question whether he is fit for the job?

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I think I know what you mean Sixy, ...you don't choose to break the limit all the time you just choose WHEN to break it?..When you do you are in little danger of being pinged by a speed camera...Right?

BTW...
Noticed your advert for the Truck Drivers' conference...is that anywhere near SKEGNESS?

Oh yes it does, which is why most of the regular posters on here have no points.

But again I wasn't arguing about this forum alone was I?
I was generalising of the driving population as a whole who get 'done' speeding.

Anyway to join in with the argumentative vein...how do you know they have no points?..Sorry I feel you were a bit naive there...I'm a born cynic and unless I see proof I treat all claims on the Internet with suspicion, but yeah I can see where if someone SAYS they have no points on a forum board...without proof to the contrary you would have to believe them or call them liars to their screens....

Who knows. You appear to be a troll who does not want to believe that it is possible to drive safely without the 'aid' of speed cameras.



Because some time ago someone posted the question and we answered (I have no reason to believe that anyone lied).



And yet you are quite happy to believe that speed cameras save lives despite plenty of evidence that proves otherwise. A proper cynic (like me ) will not believe anything told to us by faceless people who are trying to screw money out of us.

and



and



Re--arrange the following words into a well known phrase or saying:

Fall, pride, comes, a, before.

I wish I had a quid for every self-satisfied, smug, concieted individual who'd expressed those sentiments in the past!

(oh, I forgot, it's the government that gets the quids! )

I have just returned from a continental tour of around 3500 miles taking in France, Germany, Switzerland and Italy. I went as far south as Rome.

The scariest are the Italians, in fact I find it a puzzle that there are any Italian men still alive. They are complete and utter dickheads, yet don't drive any faster than the Germans. It is a case of complete and utter incompetence and stupidity as a nation. If you don't believe me just have a trip down there.

I felt safest in Switzerland and France, although I did not drive in Paris, (thank God !). The swiss can be a bit stupid overtaking on the Apline passes; no doubt these 'bold' drivers will not become both bold and old.

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Good manners maketh a good motorist

What is it with you lot?
Is it so hard a concept to grasp that not everyone shares your own particular ideals?

A troll...mmm now there's a new one...anyone with different ideals is a troll...I guess were all trolls then as not everyone agrees exactly with someone else's points of view.
According to wikipedia ...."a troll is someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding."
I don't consider any of my contributions so far as coming anywhere near 'derogatory or inflammatory'..if they come across like that well I'm sorry they aren't intended to be so they are just my points of view. I don't expect everyone to like, subscribe to or even respond to them, and I would certainly not sink so low as to attack a poster of something I didn't agree with just because it didn't fit in with the accepted belief.
I like to think I can see both points of view, those for, and those against speed cameras/ road humps or whatever without the need to get personal with those who oppose my views...Perhaps some of you should try to do likewise.

Am a COAST driver.

I respect other road users as a result

I want fair play. We have call to increase L test to after age 18.

But people learn when they can afford to. Some are middle aged when they learn to drive .. yet they are tarred with same brush as the 17 year old who wants to prove something


Someone called the Vine prog. Her boy witnessed a fatal aged 17 years. It sobered him.

Our own eldest? They all knew what happened to their mother. They have never had any false illusiions. I think our younger children are similarly aware because of the family photo album which shows my wife in a wheelchair and learning to walk again.

So .. perhaps shock education with the full consent of those involved can help here. Note my words - those involved must consent
]
[quote
A troll...mmm now there's a new one...anyone with different ideals is a troll...I guess were all trolls then as not everyone agrees exactly with someone else's points of view.
According to wikipedia ...."a troll is someone who intentionally posts derogatory or otherwise inflammatory messages about sensitive topics in an established online community such as an online discussion forum to bait users into responding."
I don't consider any of my contributions so far as coming anywhere near 'derogatory or inflammatory'..if they come across like that well I'm sorry they aren't intended to be so they are just my points of view. I don't expect everyone to like, subscribe to or even respond to them, and I would certainly not sink so low as to attack a poster of something I didn't agree with just because it didn't fit in with the accepted belief.
I like to think I can see both points of view, those for, and those against speed cameras/ road humps or whatever without the need to get personal with those who oppose my views...Perhaps some of you should try to do likewise.[/quote]

I do not regard you as someone unworthy of debate. Humps are usually too high even at low speed. I know the damage caused if paramedics are dealing with "neck/spinal" injury. It even causes problems for the heart failures. Time can be of essence. Believe me please. Humps can delay.. kill in such a circumstance

I'd thus rather a full hammering of COAST/'OAP and umpteen policemen on patrol to deter stupidity

Not your enemy mate. Niot at all. I want fair play and fair justice. I also want the true idiots banged up.

Automation and humps are not working and most agree that automation is replacing those who can make that essential difference to our lot in life.

So more BiB please.

It's certainly not because I think they might "let me off hook if I err".

It's because I value them.. their professionalism and if I break a law .. acccept more that I did. I do not break laws. I admit though that my family needs do come first and I might do so for their safety needs within reason. I would never ever do "dangerous" I have fr too much respect for other people to do so. Let me make that brutally plain

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Nope, that's why we debate stuff. If everyone agreed it would be called an agreement, and probably therefore be extremely dull.

He only said you appear to be a troll. And you did fail to answer the question raised in his post.

Anyway, that aside, I am still waiting for someone to tell me how since speed in excess of a limit is responsible for around 10-12% of accidents, speed cameras which only detect this one offence, provided you have been thoughtful enough to register insure tax and MOT your car correctly, apparently reduce accidents by 40% and more.

They really are magic cameras, reducing offences they don't detect - well then they get my vote.

Mad Moggy, at last! Someone who doesn't 'go for the jugular' at the mere mention of something not in tandem with ones own views!
I can indeed see your point where speed humps could be a hindrance to emergency vehicles and such. But on the same tack, those drivers of those emergency vehicles would know the area and avoid such obstacles surely?
Also depending on the ground clearance of your vehicle I can see why many of the sports car owners would be pee'd off having to contend with speed humps on their route. Then again In my experience you only find speed humps in places like residential areas, schools and other places where the flow of traffic needs to be physically slowed down because tin signs don't work to either protect the residents/kids from speeding drivers or afford a little peace and quiet (as was the case in my area).
Before anyone picks up on the 'speeding driver bit' I am also in total agreement that it isn't always the driver who is at fault if a pedestrian gets run over...we need to get back to teaching such things as the 'Green Cross Code' in schools and bring back 'Tufty Fluffytail' on TV to help teach young kids road awareness...But in the mean time we are stuck with whatever means keeps the pedestrian as safe as they can be. If that means a speed camera on approach to a school or a rural village then a speed camera it is...if speed humps then fine install those too.
I can put up with the mild inconvenience of having to slow down so as not to fall foul of either.

I've thought about this carefully, and I can't in all honesty come up with a way in which this could mean you're not in control of your vehicle.

As many will be aware, I know a thing or two about machine control, and limits which have very real safety consequences, but if I'm pelting along above the countryside at 50', the last thing I am going to do is to look in to see whether I am doing 100 or 120 knots; I'm too busy looking for wires, trees and horse riders to give two hoots about my numerical speed. The fact that I may exceed an arbitrary figure of speed certainly does not mean I am in any less control of my machine, nor does it mean I am insufficiently focussed on the task in hand, it simply means that my attention and capacity is directed where necessary; it makes no odds if I hit wires at a crawl, I have still hit them, and thats pretty undesirable!

To note that the 'attentive driver' should not miss a camera is all well and good, but capacity is finite, albeit at a varying level amongst individuals, and it harks back to the question, 'why tax anyone more than necessary whilst they are trying to negotiate safe passage of the road system?'. Given that our attention has a limit, the ideal would be to reduce unneccesary driver inputs, so that things like safely negotiating the road and conditions, whilst avoiding collisions with anything at any speed, can be given their undivided focus.