Safe Speed Forums

Unless it causes noise and confusion.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Thanks. But I'm sorry if you think I'm 'quibbling'.

I am actually basing what I say on more than just a gut-feeling.



Thanks for the information, but I knew that.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Please explain. And I hope it doesn't mean what I think it does.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

You tell me what you think it means. Then I'll tell you what it means. OK?

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Firstly, the exception doesn't prove the rule. Secondly, you are comparing acts of god to acts of stupidity IMO.

If you want to do the biggest favour of all to mankind why don't you target the biggest killer of all? Mosquitos!

Oh, and speeders' are the malaria of the worlds troubles on our roads don't ya know?

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Big Tone, what I was doing was wondering what would happen if "act of God" met "act of stupidity."

A tree falling across the path of the car, for example, when PC Numpty had both hands off the wheel, his eyes off the road and hyis mind off the driving.

It is unlikely, true, but unlikely things happen.

It was unlikely that my poor Uncle had his car hit on the roof by a flying motorbike. Accident caused by someone else, though it was the biker and his girlfriend who got killed. The who caused the accident had not so much as a dent.

And it was unlikely that my brother in law suddenly found himself facing someone hurtling towards him on the inside lane of a motorway. Thankfully his father had been trained in military driving, so had taught his son what he knew. He was able to use the barrier as a brake. The Trafpols who arrived confirmed that had he not done that, he and his family would have been at best badly injured, at worst, dead.

But what if he had been gazing away from the road, hands off wheel, mind off his driving? As that officer had been doing?

S**t happens. A lot of the s**t that happens is, despite what G.O.B. feels, unexpected. 20/20 hindsight is great. "Oh, yes, I could have told you that steampipe would rupture/the tree fall down/the traffic light topple over".

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

While you have been involved in this pointless argument, you could have gone and found the location, and seen whether there were any trees nearby, or any possibility of road subsidence!

see it here

Dual carriageway, large central median, parallel service road and good sightlines.... I dont think anything was liable to happen in front of the police car which couldn't be anticipated. I dont see that his speed was excessive in the slightest at that time of morning either.

The vehicle could be easily controlled by raising one knee and wedging the wheel for a fraction of a second while he released his hold on the steering wheel.
As far as I can tell, it was just a STUPID thing to do, and it has cost him a great deal. I dont see it as a highly risky thing to do - I am sure that changing a CD or tuning the car radio would be far more risky for most drivers!
He just should not have done it!

It's just the way I see it!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

Sorry Thatsnews, I can imagine, all too well, what your uncle must have experienced.

I was trying to see the connection between something which, in the big scheme of things, almost fades into insignificance or what we can do about these acts of god.

Police officer or not, for they are human too, people do stupid things regardless of the uniform they wear and for me that says it all. One rule for them another for us and we all know this happens just as surely as we all know they get off with it.

We know they are fallible and stupid and corrupt and??? Every institution has bad eggs. I think it's more about stupid people in general than uniformed stupid people.

For me, getting back to the thread title, its sensationalism again. The media have gotten hold of something to tantalise us in the way only the media can and do. Dog bites man makes news, man bites dog is news.

How many more stories are we going to read like this: 'Med Hughes speeds', 'another PC does 170 mph on motorway' etc. etc., where they are caught with their pants down only for it just to be glossed over.

If Brunstrom was caught tomorrow doing the same it would be no more than a storm in a teacup. We know this, although we would get some mileage out of it. No matter what he does, he will retire in comfort with a big fat handshake.

So other than the usefulness of having these things recorded so we can make a long list which will be ignored, I'm not sure what else we can say about it.

Soz again if I missed the point.


Just saw your post Ernest. Fair point and I agree although I respectfully dissagre with the bit: "it has cost him a great deal".

Like I was just saying, these people, at worst, move on - get promoted - whatever...

Can anyone mention any case where a PC has taken the fall he/she deserves - in the way we would in our jobs? If I screw-up, my feet wouldn't touch the floor and no handshake - nothing but disgrace.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Are you saying you constantly find unexpected things happening when you are driving?

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Well, G.O.B, I do not drive, so that point is moot. (My eyesight is not good enough for me to consider it safe to keep my licence, no matter if legally I could. )

But I have seen a variety of incidents that have made me realise that the road is not a place for silly boys or girls to play games of chance. Be they "Look ma, no hands," some damn fool cyclist scattering pedestrians on a Zebra crossing, or an idiot driving through a red light.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Even if we do agree it wasn't highly risky, its still a 'hair splitting' argument contributing nothing to the road safety debate isn't it?



I don't know about that Grumpy, all road safety messages are simplified versions of reality, they have to be in order to communicate to the public. "Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule" is one of the best messages around, most would agree that its sensible but even it has an element of falseness about it. A car with a more competent driver and better bralkes could probably reduce the gap to less than that required by someone less competent in a less able car.

"It is dangerous to take both hands off the wheel whilst driving" would be a reasonable way to communicate the idea that this is something you really shouldn't do because it could raise the base level of risk to an unacceptable level.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

We’re debating whether this man was driving dangerously or simply being a jerk. I wouldn’t call that ‘splitting hairs’.

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

I would argue it was possible he was doing both, potentially.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Yes but its like arguing whether the team playing in 'red' are wearing burgundy shirts or scarlet. As long as 'red' will suffice, arguing over the shade is irrelevant.
If we don't want drivers to take their hands off the wheel because it could be dangerous, then whether a one-off incident viewed as a snapshot in time actually is dangerous or simply the actions of a jerk is equally as irrelevant and therefore hair splitting.
I can accept that such an action may not present immediate danger, but fail to see how this acknowledgement helps in any way shape or form other than to 'prove' that you were right

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

I still think you are all missing the point here. It's about public perception of the police and the further undermining of the relationship between "us and them". It's not really about whether momentarily taking hands off the wheel is or is not dangerous in this particular incident.

Police should be - and be seen to be - more responsible and law abiding than the general public. This is why people get so exited by police cars parking on yellow lines outside the Chinese takeaway. Anything less than high probity devalues officers in our eyes.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

It's a big leap to suggest 'we' don't want drivers to do it because it could be dangerous.

It would be like 'us' saying drivers should never exceed Speed Limits because it could be dangerous. There is only one reason to never exceed the Speed Limit, and that's because it's illegal - absolutely nothing to do with danger. The danger always depends on the circumstances.

So please don't include me in the royal we...



Not sure about us all missing the point. But aren't we getting a bit used to it now? When Meredith Hughes fails to lead by example what can we expect?

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

I think we've established that!

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished

Whatever.

Look, clearly you can see some usefulness in pointing out that driving with ones hands off the wheel isn't necessarily dangerous.
Me, well I would hope to goodness that if a copper saw anyone doing it, regardless of the circumstances, he'd be pulling them over and ticketing them. Bad attitude, being stupid, being dangerous...meh, its all irrelevant then! You're still getting points and a fine.

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Driving at a speed which is well within your capabilities and which you, based on your experience, consider to be safe, is vastly different from driving with both hands off the wheel, giving a thumbs up and with one's eyes and mind off the road.

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www.thatsnews.org.uk / www.thatsnews.blogspot.com / http://thatsmotoring.blogspot.com/

Or alternatively...

Driving with both hands off the wheel, which is well within your capabilities and which you, based on your experience, consider to be safe, is vastly different from driving dangerously.

And before you say it - the eyes bit is irrelevant. You can probably spend longer looking in rear-view mirrors than this guy was looking at the camera. And who says his mind was off the road?

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It's tricky doing nothing - you never know when you're finished