Safe Speed Forums

As is my habit, this morning I was sitting at one of the roundabouts on the Blandford Bypass watching an endless stream of cars go by...

Said roundabout has a heavy weighting of traffic going from one side to another across my nose, so to speak, plus people from the opposite direction turning right, i.e. passing in front of me. I get very annoyed therefore when someone arrives at the turning to my right, then turns left into my turning without indicating, as this usually means I miss another opportunity to get out*.

A woman in an old Fiesta arrived thus - without indicating, but slowing right up - so I suspected that she might be turning left. She did, but as she did so, presumably to let me know that I could go, she flashed me.



So in summary: new method of indicating off a roundabout: flash the car waiting at the next turning instead.

Can we see it catching on?





*Equally people who come from ahead of me and turn right without indicating - but as I assume that they want me to think that they're going straight on, I pull out anyway if it's remotely safe

She might have been apologising for not indicating?

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
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Maybe, but in that case shouldn't she have started indicating as soon as she realised that she was supposed to be?

People who habitually don't indicate left to come off roundabouts get on my wick. Either they don't know the basic rules (which could well have applied to the woman above) or they're selfish, obnoxious bar stewards: "I can't see how it would benefit me so I'm not going to do it, even though it would benefit others." It's the same attitude which gives rise to lane-hogging (in some cases at least) and a host of other irritations which can also be potentially dangerous. It's an attitude that you also get away from the roads: "I don't need to bother with courtesy, even though I expect it from others, because I'm superior". Invariably, of course, they're anything but superior.

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Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

Over the years I've found that less and less people are indicating at roundabouts. I suspect one of the reasons may be the over-engineering of so many roundabouts. By this I mean traffic lights in roundabouts and excessive lane markings on the roundabout. That is, when people come up to many roundabouts they have 3 or 4 lane options going in and lights to tell them when to stop and go. One result of this may be that at such roundabouts they think something like "Well I'm in this lane and it's marked all the way round so people will know from that where I'm going, and I don't need to check if anyone is on the roundabout since the lights will tell me anyway".

I think that because there are an increasing number of roundabouts like this where people don't feel they have to bother to indicate it results in this behaviour becoming normal for roundabouts so that at roundabouts where there are no lights or lane markings they still don't bother to indicate because they've got used to not doing so.

I'm sure the government already has the obvious solution in mind though... people aren't indicating or checking for traffic so all roundabouts must now have tons of lane markings and lights. Obvious

Isn't it about some troll popped up and said that in the same way that lane hogging wasn't selfish as it didn't involve breaking the speed limit, not indicating wasn't selfish either.

Maverick808 - I agree entirely with you, they've just screwed up a roundabout near where I work (Canford Bottom on the A31) with markings so that you have to be in the left-hand-lane to turn slightly right (on the sign) from a couple of exits, but you only find this out halfway round the roundabout.... however the roundabout above is your classic four-pointer and not - yet - ruined in any way

Reading the OP I inferred that she was already exiting and bit late to indicate so possibly was apologising as she realised what she had done.

Not indicating is one of my pet hates too, I think it indicates lack of observation and/or courtesy on the drivers part.



Giving the government bad ideas warning.....

How about roundabout indicator cameras? Failure to indicate left gets you 3 points and a £60 fine.

Not indicating causes congestion and annoys drivers which leads to poor driving and accidents = nice little earner.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

I wrote this on PH in reply to someone who has mis-hap on a roundabout...


there no fixed rule in Highway Code - apart rules 185/186 which both tell drivers to be aware of everyone on the roundabout und to be aware they may not indicate properly..

Rule 186 tell you to signal left und approach in left hand lane if taking first exit If turning right to be in right hand lane und signal right. You keep to the right until you need to change lanes und you put on left indicator AFTER passing exit before the one you need.

You advised to follow the road markings - but to choose the appropriate lane on approach und to watch out for twazaks und pretzels all the time

"DSA Driving Standards- Essential Skills" spell out the MSM/PSL on pages 170-173. They say to indicate "left" on approach if you intend to take the first left exit - to keep to lane whilst on roundabout und maintain theleft signal whilst within the roundabout.

If straight on .. no signal needed on approach. They say if you cannot use the left hand lane because of some blockage - to use the next one. Keep to it, use mirrors.. all mirrors , but to signal left after you pass the exit before the one you want.

If turning right - indicate right on approach. Use the right hand lane.. keep to this lane und maintain signal on roundabout. CHECK all mirrors - esspecially the one on the passenger side und indicate left as you pass the exit before the one you want. UND TO always be aware of traffic to your left or sitting in potential SMIDSY blind spot


We hear lots from my in-laws who live in the Worsley area of Manchester. They use J13 und they see all sorts of cut-ins from right hand traffic into left hand traffic at this narrow entry to M60 there.


It matter of courtesy to tell another what you are doing.

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I have to confess that I don't indicate on the over-engineered spiral type roundabouts. The ones where if you get in the correct lane upon entry you will whirl around and be deposited at the exit you want without needing to worry about anything beyond staying in lane and not hitting people.

The reason for this is simple. When people do indicate on these things, it's usually because they need to change lane having realised they cocked up their entry. I don't want the guy to my left having to back off because he thinks I'm going to pull in front of him.

The one exception to this is where the lane you're currently in has a choice of either this exit or the next exit, then I'll indicate if there is someone waiting.

On traditional roundabouts I'll indicate in the traditional manner as described in the HC.


One question though, just to put a spanner in the works. Are the huge spiral monstrosities even roundabouts. Could you consider them as small one-way systems, where do you draw the line? If it's a one-way system then flashing somebody out who is trying to pull in from a side street would indeed be the correct approach (if you go with the de facto definition of flashing, not the HC definition)

As an aside, whenever I'm signalling left for any turning, I'll usually flash out the person waiting to pull out since most people ignore left signals these days (hell, even my old driving instructor repeatedly told me "always ignore a left signal when you're at a give way")

What I have found is that a car enters the roundabout and immediately sticks on left indicator . Is it getting off at first /second/third exit - the choice is yours -and according to the song "suicide is painless"
Then we have the hesitant bird - car at remote entrance ,bird waits till gap almost nil ,then goes - had it had gone earlier , then more cars could have moved .

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Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Topic-drift, but there's a famous roundabout on the A31 near my work with only two exits

"If one is taking the first turning one should indicate left for the duration of the time on the roundabout, otherwise start indicating left when you pass the previous exit" more or less sums up my approach to indicating left on roundabouts.

Hence, should EVERYONE indicate left to go straight on at this roundabout?

When I'm waiting to pull out and turn right at "T" junctions, I'm amazed at the number of new cars which are not fitted with indicators!...

Having waited patiently.....for the car coming from the right to pass by.......(even though there is a gap to the left)......what does he do?


Yep! The barsteward turns left without indicating or leaves it so late to be of no flippin' use!


No wonder there are so many accidents at road junctions, because next time you think yep! He is!....Then suddenly!.....he isn't!........an' you will get blamed for guessing wrong.
Still, the "speed camera" will fix that won't it.............

You shouldn't rely on a left signal anyway. They might be intending to park just after the junction, or they may have just failed to cancel it after turning onto the road. (or they could be trying to get someone to pull out on them, so that they can crash into you and claim on insurance)

I've started making a point of signalling left, and then if I see the person looking at me, I flash them out. This usually gets the person to move and thus helps them out as well as helping with the traffic flow and so on.

agreed on everything said here. dont rely on the indicator. how many times have you seen someone indicate and pass a turn off of some description? if im driving something that can get up to speed in time i go for it but generally i treat them with caution.

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Far more likely that she was trying to indicate and the stalk slipped and flashed the lights...

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Something not mentioned before - BEWARE of VAG cars - default programming is that when indicator is moved ,it WILL flash FOUR times .
So - old biddy catches indicator by accident - and puts it back - indicator will flash up to four times UNLESS other direction activated .

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

And if it's a Vauxhall, doing that will just cause it to start flashing 3 times in the other direction.

I really wish Vauxhall and Volkswagen hadn't decided to mess with something that worked just fine as it was.

Looks like the Germines have a lot to answer for

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Yes, my cars have this "3 flashes" business but, fortunately, it can be switched off if you want in the car setup menus. You can stop the automatic flashing by flicking the stalk again in the same direction.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I just can't believe what a dangerous "innovation" that is! It's certainly something I'll be watching out for (and come to think of it, maybe it explains a few things that I've witnessed before...on the other hand, maybe not.... )

_________________
Paul Smith: a legend.

"The freedom provided by the motor vehicle is not universally applauded, however: there are those who resent the loss of state control over individual choice that the car represents. Such people rarely admit their prejudices openly; instead, they make false or exaggerated claims about the adverse effects of road transport in order to justify calls for higher taxation or restrictions on mobility." (Conservative Way Forward: Stop The War Against Drivers)

I quite like it on my VW van, as a little nudge causes sufficient winks to indicate an ordinary lane change. Only problem is remembering that other vehicles don't have this facility.

What I don't like is the indicators on my father's 3-series, which don't stay in the left or right position: you push them to commence indicating and in theory they self-cancel, or else you nudge them off again, but I tend to end up then indicating the other way