Safe Speed Forums

I just gave in and got the scrap company to do it, still getting £40 for the car.

I'm currently annoyed that my angle grinder isn't big enough to cut the exhaust and get the catalysts out (they're worth 40 quid on their own). Anyone near Blackwood want to have a go at removing them tomorrow and I'll split the money with you.

mole raises a whole host of questions which I can't begin to answer. My knowledge comes from what I see in court and the training I get, which is based on what they expect me to deal with in court. The best bet for answers to your questions would be a traffic cop as they must see that sort of thing every day.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

I have seen quite a few Morris traveler (the woody ones) and Minivan (old mini) trailers that have been created by cutting off the front of the vehicle and fitting a bulkhead just behind where the drivers/passangers seats would have been (along with an A frame for the tow hitch).

This thread makes me wonder just what sort of hoops the owners had to jump through to do this "Legally"

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

There is a way. First, make an appointment for an MOT at a garage that is beyond the scrap yard.

Then tow the car to the MOT. On the way, stop at the scrap yard. Everything so far is legal.

Now just "change your mind". Cancel the MOT and leave the car at the scrap yard.
This is OK because you are allowed to change your mind, as long as you meant to go
initially. They can't force you to carry on to the MOT.

As for the insurance, relax. I'm insured to "drive" your car. Maybe your wife or pal is too.
I'm insured to drive any car that doesn't belong to me. Most policies are like that. So
just take your pal with you to "be in charge". Use his insurance. He's in charge.

Would that work?

I think you'll find there are even restrictions on the MoT arrangement!
From memory it has to be pre-booked (as you suggest) but also the nearest/most direct one from where the vehicle is currently stored.

Therefore you couldn't make an appointment with one (for example) in Cornwall if you're driving there from Birmingham.

So you'd need to have a geographically suitable MoT station plus a scrappy in the ideal location.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Aww no. That's ruined my plans for importing a car from Japan

Presumably this means you can be fined if your copy of the Yellow Pages is out of date and doesn't contain a newly opened MOT station near you.

Ten years ago I would have agreed with that. today I don't. Very few policies provide drive other cars (DOC) these days, and most of those that do have all sorts of conditions. We see an awful lot of these cases in court where the policy used to have DOC but doesn't any longer. The insurance companies always point to the small print where you are advised to check that the policy still meets your needs, problem is very few drivers actually do that.


He will have to drive. DOC covers driving, not watching another person drive. DOC does cover - thanks to precedent set by appeals - a few non driving circumstances, such as leaving the car unattended while paying for fuel.


Other than the insurance problems, your MOT idea would be difficult to counter. You just need to be aware that if it was challenged you might end up in court, being asked on oath what your true intentions were when you left home. That would require perjury to maintain the "changed my mind" position.

Just a thought - would you hav eto pay for the pre-booked test if you didn't turn up?

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

To take advantage of the exemption from MOT and Tax, the test MUST be pre-booked. The police will check for this if you are stopped. There is nothing in the law which requires the test to be booked at the nearest MOT station.

But the courts apply a "reasonableness" test in these circumstances as parliament clearly intended the MOT to protect the general public from poorly maintained vehicles. It would probably be reasonable to drive past an MOT station to one 10 miles down the road, if that one is next to your work so the car can be left with them all day. Many classic car owners book their MOT tests at places that are familiar with older cars. A friend of mine drives his 1920's Austin Seven about 10 miles to be tested even though there is a place just a mile or so from his home. His car has no wipers, one stop light and all sorts of oddities that take ages to look out in the age related exemptions list. His local place is not interested, the other one encourages older cars. That was held to be reasonable when he was prosecuted.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Yes, you need a capacity to maintain belief in what you know to be untrue. Doesn't everyone have that?

Many moons ago I drove my old car to the scrappy. It was still taxed and MOT'd but as the tax had some months to run I took the disc out and started to drive the three miles to the yard. And, sod's law, I passed a local patrol car, who stopped me as I wasn't displaying a tax disc. Frankly he didn't believe me. But he let me go... eventually. I went to the scrappy and got the bus home. Less than an hour later the cops turned up to see my tax disc, having been to the scrappy to check the car was there! He then threatened to stick me with a failure to display. And he was right, though I did wonder what a magistrate would have made of being so petty.

This was in the days way before computerised records, so I guess they had to be a bit more cynical but the words 'Why don't you go catch some real criminals' were on the tip of my tongue when they came to the house.

The moral of this tail is that if you're the sort to be honest and legal in all things you'll be the easiest to catch on that one occasion when you weren't.

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

I think the car that you drive on your policy also does have to be insured by the owner as well.

If not I could buy and insure a 15 year old Mini and drive "my mate's" Ferrari on the policy. Whilst he will use the cover on his 15 year old Mini to drive "my" Ferrari.

I doubt the insurance industry would allow that sort of a loophole.

Mike.

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www.misspelled-signs.com - A tribute to illiterate signwriters.

And I guess he was prosecuted in the first place because an officer believed that he had failed to make use of the provisions of the nearest/most direct MoT test station?
So, even though he was acting within the law he had to answer for his actions in court?
Wouldn't it be nice if law abiding people were not prosecuted in the first place?

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

The point here is that the law does not specify the nearest MOT station. If it did then we would see people being prosecuted because they had driven 13 miles when there was a station within 12.99 miles. Equally if there was no limit people would misuse the provisions to drive hundreds of miles in potentially unroadworthy cars.

With the law as it is, each case is considered on its merits allowing an individual to take his car to a test station that suits his personal circumstances. That is a considerable benefit to the majority of people but will involve a few in court action. The Austin Seven I mentioned has a top speed of 40mph and cable brakes on the rear wheels only which may have influenced the prosecution to bring the case. I wouldn't drive it round the block and would much rather spend half a day getting it tested locally than drive it 10 miles.

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I am not a lawyer and can't give legal advice. I do have experience of the day to day working of courts and use that knowledge to help where possible. I do not represent any official body and post as an individual.

Sounds like it has the performance enverlope of a G-Wiz

(In all seriousness, probabally fine around town, but I wouldnt want to take it out onto faster roads. After all It cannot be that dangerous otherwise it wouldnt have lasted that long! "Darwin" applies to machines as well as plants/animals!)

On amore serious note..

I have a similar question to the OP’s the Mr Fisherman might be able to advise on.

I have a car parked (SORNED) in my driveway. Untaxed, Un-MOT’d (I do have insurance All will become clear later #)

I would like to get it back on the road but (obviously) I will need to do a certain amount of preparation before taking it for an MOT test.

My driveway faciltities are limited, however my Mothers house (half a mile down the road) has much better facilities for this sort of work.

The “simple” question is, am I permitted to drive my car up to my Mums on the grounds that I am taking it to a “Place of repair”

But, before you answer, there is additional information.

There are what may be “special circumstances” in my case. I am a Mobile Mechanic, (VAT registered, trade insurance # etc, not just somebody who fixes neighbours cars at weekends)

My Mums address is actually my registered business address, my “official” workshop site as it were. Again all quite official it is where my “Hazardous waste” license is registered and where all official correspondence is directed VAT, Tax etc (though I only rarely actually have customers come to me)

Now, It does not seem unreasonable that, under these circumstances the “Place of repair” argument would be perfectly valid, (Even if it wasn’t in the case of an “Ordinary motorist DIYer”) unless there is some sort of sub-clause in the law that specifically excludes garage owners from driving their own cars to their own garages!

So, what is the situation here??

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I would like to know what you consider reasonable, using the example of my plan to import a rather obscure Japanese import. Obviously it's going to arrive at a port somewhere. Southampton would be cheapest. And then the first part of registering it is to take it for an MOT test, meaning I can legally drive it on the road despite being unregistered and having no number plates. I just have to insure it based on the chassis number.

I would prefer to get it MOT'd at a station close to home. In particular one run by a friend of mine as I prefer to give my business to a company that employs someone I know (help keep your friends in a job) it also helps that he's one of the few people who I can be sure will actually know this car. Problem is he's based in (say) Aberdare. This is not where I live, I'm about (say) 12 miles drive in a different (but not opposite) direction.

Now Southampton -> Aberdare I imagine you would say I was taking the piss somewhat, but how about Cardiff -> Aberdare?


BTW the car I started this thread talking about was collected by a scrapyard yesterday.

I have no argument with you Fisherman so please don't think this is an attack on you, and I have not fallen foul of the law so it's not sour grapes.

I agree that there must be some consideration for public safety along with a workable law, however the point here for me is that a Police officer presumably thought that there had been an offence committed otherwise he would not have 'stuck him on.' (To use the vernacular). And the case presumably made it to court so the law is probably not clear enough?

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

You've both been had, I scarapped two cars a month ago and got £120 each, collected from my driveway
(and yes I know this threads a bit old)