Safe Speed Forums

Oh, so all truckers break the speed limit do they?
Hmmm...

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Without self expression, we're all slaves.

It would appear that jomukuk doesn't believe that gantry signs CAN display wrong information or information that is totally irrelevent to the conditions at the time!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I know the signs have a limited number of digits with which to convey the info but surely giving just the bloomin' junction numbers is just going to end up with a lot of distracted drivers attempting to check a road atlas just beyond the sign. Unless you've a Can GPS tell you such info? I'm pretty hopeless at remembering m-way junction numbers and I'll bet I'm not alone.

And talking of the signs being a bit premature last trip around the M25 the display was announcing congestion on the M1 (those never ending road works at a guess) before I'd passed the junctions for the M3, M4 and M40. Now where the hecks my atlas.

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

No, jomukuk does believe that they can display information that may be wrong...BUT......**THE DRIVER** does not know that AT THAT TIME.
Given that THE VAST MAJORITY of rta are caused by driver error of one sort or another, you may consider that ignoring any sort of warning is stupid. Well, I do....maybe others do not ?
Anyway.....I run along, doing 50- when the signs say 50.....getting overtaken by EVERYONE.....and then run into the next stage...which is outside lane closure....and still get overtaken by EVERYONE....until the lane closed arrives....and then I run into the several tens of drivers frantically trying to get from lane 3 into 1 or 2......
This is not a one-off, it happens every time I run into any sort of blockage....driver behaviour on the stretch of the M1 during the lengthy roadworks was little short of [either] attempted homicide, or suicide.
As for believing truckers speed..............hello.....the speed limit for trucks on EVERY single carriageway in England is 40mph for TRUCKS.....and 50 on dual carriageways.....
I'm surprised that more speed cams are not being retasked to pic on 46 on s/c roads....they'd make a fortune from trucks....

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Let's not get confused by the chasm wide line that exists between what is legal and what is safe...
I stick to 40mph on s/c roads in my 44t artic and have done so for some time...Much to the annoyance of built up traffic behind me. An 'A' road is considerably wider, in most cases, than a 'B' road, yet the speed remains the same. In this instance I will move to the side of the road and allow traffic to overtake, where it is safe to do so. I do this as a matter of politeness. It is absolutely absurd to suggest that speed cameras should be retasked on ALL s/c roads, since ALL s/c are not the same.
Obviously, we cannot have variable speed limits, but as the law is black and white and absolute, people like you believe it cannot be 'relaxed' in certain circumstances, like the one stated above.
You would do well to remember that a 40mph speed limit for HGVs, forces following drivers, rightly or wrongly, to take greater risks in order to overtake. This INCREASES road deaths. Allowing a lorry to travel at, say 50mph, in conditions where it is safe to do so, decreases the number of drivers willing to risk an overtake. This DECREASES road deaths. Surely the aim of everyone.
Ticketing an HGV driver for doing 46mph simply because the law says he shouldn't, does NOT promote road safety in this situation.

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Without self expression, we're all slaves.

This argument will go-on forever, as always.
No truckers agrees with the [lower] speed limits, as few agree with speed limitation by mechanical means.
You have both however, and both will remain for some time. The mechanical/electronic speed limitation is unlikely to be removed ever.
Talking to truck drivers.....none agree with the driving times limits either. That's not going anytime soon either.
Self regulation never worked, and never will. So you have laws.
Some roads have [proposed-existing] no-overtaking areas where trucks cannot legally overtake (ignored by foreign truckers, as are driving times etc).
Of course, truckers say that they cause accidents, because overtaking cars have nowhere to pull into after overtaking them.....yeah....well, if they drove further apart than 10 feet.....
They're driving up to 40+ tonnes.....they take longer to stop than cars.....they put up so much spray in the wet that the 100 metres behind you is a danger zone....many of them have dvd players/tvs on the dash (yes, many do, just watch the trucks passing at night.....) (this one got noticed http://news.aol.co.uk/driver-using-laptop-before-crash/article/20090209020329138150353)

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Right, I'm calling it a day on this. And on the other thread (56 or 60).
Clearly by your replies on both threads you are anti lorry and will never concede to a sensible post, let alone agree with it. No one will ever 'win' an argument with you because you believe everything you read and therefore allways right.
Spewing statistics all over the screen does not, and never has, represented the real world. There are to many variables. But I suppose you'll disagree about that aswell.
Oh, and on the subject of dvd players, well, most are not. In fact, they're a fleet tracking system which enables the driver to input his entire route for that shift so that his location can be pinpionted at a moments notice. Driving times, work times, rest breaks and a wealth of other information, delivery details etc., can also be accessed. This requires a large screen, hence your confusion with a dvd...But hey, you'll still be right tho'.
End.

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Without self expression, we're all slaves.

Firstly,

You say that the driver does not know that a warning sign is correct or not so he shouldn't ignore it? Would it not make more sense to make sure that ALL warning signs are relevent and then the motorists probaly WOULDN'T ignore it. Most of my driving is on single carriage way country roads.I don't have signs warning me of delays twenty miles away or fog that was here yesterday and gone today or cows/sheep wandering round the next corner because of a hole in the hedge. If I can manage to drive safely without warning signs on roads with far more blind bends than motorways have, then what use are motorway signs anyway?

Secondly,

Your stats only go to show that HGVs are some of the safest vehicles on the road for the mileage they cover...what was the point?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

The point of the regulation of traffic flow is to make the best use of the existing road system.
As a single user you are, quite literally, insignificant.
One million users on a m/way system (and associated nearby roads) are not.
In any case, shortly you will notice that the traffic light system will be capable of being altered on a minute-by-minute basis (at least in high-congestion areas)
Some areas are already installing the system....which slows traffic down in response to several indicators....and pollution will be one of them.
MK already has lights recently installed to stop traffic on several roundabouts, to allow build-up in other areas to dissipate.
Some m/ways may already have flow regulation on entry slip roads.
Signs will be changed to mandatory from advisory......of course, you can ignore them....but the penalty for that will be points.....
What you do on country/uncongested roads makes little difference.
You are supposed to drive with consideration for other road users.....and not just when it suits you !
As for the graph.....look at the stats for rigids.
The drag yourself to the stats for injuries/deaths caused by trucks...
Fortunately, the EU goal is to reduce the amount of trucks on the road, and (if necessary) to bar them for periods of the day/night in certain areas.
The gov idea is to force freight back onto the rail network...at least, long distance freight !
The driving hours are not going up.
The speeds are also not going up....even the cons are backing-away from that idea.
However, the medical requirements are likely to become more severe.
Some even have the idea of a full 12 point ecg....looking at many truckers, just asking them to do 10 push-ups to get a ticket would be enough ! (and no, I cannot do more than 15 in a minute)

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

You talk the talk of an office bound motorist. Firstly traffic lights in the real world cannot reduce congestion, only increase it which in turn increases pollution. How can I as a single user be insignificant? I am like all the other millions using the roads 8 hours a day...perhaps you need to do likewise? Consideration for other road users means driving safely for the conditions and surrounding road users not following the advice of some fool in an office many miles away who has forgotten to switch off a sign because his coffee break is his main concern. Road sense starts on the tarmac and ends there. I have just come back from travelling nearly 2000 miles across europe where there is little traffic congestion because there are few signs giving pointless, useless information which this country is famous for. I think if you are assuming that truckers are unfit and there so unsafe to drive, you are barking up the wrong tree, you may be suprised if you were to compare truckers strength and fitness with your own. I personally am over 50 and can do well in excess of 15 press ups in one go.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

The point, which you are ignoring, is that AS A SINGLE ROAD USER, you are insignificant.
Communication with you as a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL ROAD USER is impossible.
YOU are part of the MILLIONS of people on the road, so are treated as a large group....the behaviour of an individual driver is of no effect...a group is predictable and controllable.
Traffic lights.
They move congestion back, away from the large mass of motionless vehicles and break the mass into smaller groups...allowing the original cause of the blockage time to dissipate.
Pollution is mover away from the area of the first warning, to others..from one street where NO [maybe] has built to a high degree to others...and hence to dissipate.
As for truckers....sorry, the medical requirements are going to become more strict. Just because a 20 stone guy can lift an elephant above his head does not mean his heart is capable of supporting it.
You are missing various points: The aim of government is to REMOVE 25% of vehicles from the roads by 2015. THAT is the policy over the EU. How they are removed is of little consequence...probably by high cost ?
Your life IS ruled by "office bound drivers"....and will become more so. A red traffic light, unlike a gantry speed recommendation, leaves no room for error.
You can be the best driver in the world, with 12 points you will not be a driver.
With 12 points as a trucker you run a real risk of not being a trucker for a long time. Your licence is not a right, it IS a privilege !
You can moan all you like....as I pointed-out a long time ago.....democracy is a nice word that means little.
The chance to take power back into the hands of the people went a long time back.
Your life is ruled by office-bound-drivers (or non-drivers)....or did you forget your driving times......and the other horde of regulations ?
The latest "road building initiative" stalled a while back, stalled by planning regulation, protest and NIMBY[ism].
Several widening schemes will continue (but even they are not immune from cancellation).
As a traffic cop said (on those endless police/camera/action.whatever) shows...."I can spot an hours fiddler a mile away....that's 6 today...he'll be back in his car next week"


http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp98/rp98-016.pdf

http://www.scoot-utc.com/

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Well all I can say to that is that I look forward to the revolution....it will come one day.... Let's put the country in the hands of people with practical experience and not bookworms.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

As for being insignificant all I can say about that is, if we took all the office bound control freaks away for a month, who would really notice their absence....?

Take away all truckers for a month and then let's see.....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

graball, don't go down the same road I did, you'll only get frustrated. jomukuk makes a good point, It's just that he makes it badly. His statement about a red traffic light is a good example. To stop at a red light at the top of a slip road before entering a roundabout means exactly that. No other argument is possible. It matters not a jot that you've done this at three in the morning with absolutely NO other traffic about. Democratically speaking, making said traffic light part time would have been better for everyone. It appears that jomukuk does not see this as a plausable thought process and therefore not concede to any alternative. In his eyes, removing that thought process from the driver is the only way forward.
We'll all become automatons, with the leader of the democrats having the final say.

By the way, I can do 50 pressups in a minute, and I'm 47...

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Without self expression, we're all slaves.

Yes, I got to 35 last night in 45 seconds before my arms gave out but I haven't been to a gym in 10 years and rarely do press ups. Maybe the office workers should get medically tested, they say lack of fitness leads to poor thought processing. It seems that many council office workers and highway planners are suffering from lack of joined up thinking these days. Part time traffic lights is far too much thinking for a simple days work load.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

The problem with office bound road planners is just that....they are office bound. Their only experience of the roads is at rush hour/peak times when they are crawling to work and back home again. They don't have a clue what happens on the roads between 9 and 5 or at 3AM in the morning. They really need to get 12 months driving experience in a driving job before they can even start to plan how to manage traffic.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I've never worked in an office.
I have worked all my life in industry.
15 push-ups in a minute is good, for me.
With an FEV of 57% from my damaged lungs....and I'm 60 by the way.
And I now drive a van.......hence my pathological dislike of truckers, with their preference for driving with a 4 metre gap between themselves and the vehicle in front (and frequently under their front) at any, and every, speed.
Most traffic lights are timed interval, although they can be on a variable time basis....dependent on traffic....
You can expect more of the same in the future, probably tomorrow !
The system would work very well, except that many drivers neither know, nor care, about it.....but then, many know the speed limit for the area they are driving in, but ignore it.
In many cases now the limit will be arbitrary and not based on need for a lower limit...but since it is enforced you would assume that drivers will at least pay some attention to it...they don't....they prefer to moan about speeding tickets....they don't even pay any attention when the limits low for a reason....when road work is going on....
Welcome to the result.
Separate speed limits for different vehicles, stage 1.
Soon , if things carry-on as they are, the speed will be electronically enforced...Yes, older vehicles will be non-enforced...but since newer ones, and trucks, will be going slower.....
Anyway, the solution to the problem is either more roads, or less vehicles, or better use of the existing roads (more control).
More roads is one partial solution being adopted, but only where traffic is seriously congested.
Less vehicles is a no, people don't like being told what to do....but the recession is doing that anyway...and higher prices for fuel and vehicles/parts will push vehicle use down as well.
Better use, which is why we have vehicles being slowed-down as they approach a problem. Well, if anyone obeyed the speed restriction it would work....maybe.
Since the problem has had millions thrown at it, and endless (and continuing) research into it ?
Hand-up all those who have met Mr Dummy....who has realised that his slip road is fast approaching and he has no easy way to cross from lane 3, so he slows down and indicates, and gets slower and slower.....and the traffic gets slower and slower...



http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a588.asp

I look forward to a car/van/bus/truck version of air traffic control/approach control....with traffic in a "holding" pattern around the M25 !!

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:
Already thought of:
http://www.roadtraffic-technology.com/projects/traffic_control/
Of course, you also have local councils taking the same approach in their towns....

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

See what I mean, It's just twoddle. Nothing constructive at all.

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Without self expression, we're all slaves.

Little constructive takes place on these forums now anyway, since Paul died the focus has been lost.
It is now just (in the main) a forum for those with rants.
So, let us get back to the main focus.
The "campaign for genuine road safety"

Taken by many to mean "fast speeds are safe"
I take it to mean "there is no such thing as a "safe" speed", all speeds have the capability to injure or kill someone.
This particular "discussion" (rant) started:

Well, at least they are trying to be informative.
Then:

Maybe "Surface water and heavy spray from trucks coupled with their incessant tailgating making driving hard work" ?
Let me put it quite simply, and maybe contructively.

The matrix signs are not going away, the messages are informative and useful to many.
Traffic control is going to become more invasive, and comprehensive, as time goes-on.
Mandatory speed lowering, to control traffic flow, is an established fact, and is becoming more sophisticated.
Timing of traffic lights on m/way access points is already being used to restrict access, along with lane widening, use of the hard shoulder etc...
How constructive can anyone be on this site ?
There are tens of millions being thrown at ways to make better use of what we have, rather than destroying large areas of land to build more roads.
Unfortunately those informative matrix signs have proven to be disregarded, so less informative but legally enforced signs will be used more often:

No choice. People ignore the info signs, so now you're getting ones that inform and make obedience mandatory.
There are limits to being constructive.
Just as there are limits to patience.
Let me know when this site returns to safety as its main theme.
Rather than a forum for those who consider that they can drive faster than others, safely.
Maybe, in an ideal world, they can.
It isn't an ideal world.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Oddly the argument you give is almost exactly the same one I would use, knowing what junctions I am between and which one to exit at, giving the junction number tells me if the obstruction applies. If a road number or town is given then I would have to look that up to know if the hold up will be a problem. Interesting that the same reasoning can supply the opposite answers.

As far as the M25 goes, not only can hold ups on the M1 feed back for miles around the M25, but it also gives you the opportunity to decide to take the M40 instead for example.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May