Safe Speed Forums

Just came back from Bristol up the B4058 (Winterbourne road rather than motorway). Got caught behind some doddering old fool just before I turned off the ring road, doing 25mph through the 40mph limit through Hambrook. Managed to overtake...

...and a mile further up the road got caught behind a queue of 4 cars. Managed to "leap-frog" car 4 (a BMW), cars 2 and 3 turned off. Overtook the lead car which was doing (according to my GPS) 28mph through an NSL. Driver - octogenarian.

Also coming the other way after this was a Micra driven by another octogenarian driver. Difficult to gauge speed as the car was going the opposite way, however I counted at least 20 cars following this person, including a marked police van two cars back.

There comes a time when you really should give up driving!

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

They read somewhere that "speed kills" and assumed at their time of life, that anything over 30MPH is taking far too many chances.....

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Sounds about right. Actually the "speed kills" soundbite apparently came from fighter pilots in WW2 - and was used as encouragement to fly in fast, shoot the enemy and get the hell out of there.

It just got misappropriated by someone in the early 90s.

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

Or, to be more reasonable to all everyone: pull over and let a following queue pass?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I posted the following on a local forum some time ago. It's by Paul Ripley who has been used by EVO a few times for expert driving advice.

I like his take on unnecessarily slow driving:

Slow Driving and Safe Driving

Paul Ripley explains how driving too slowly can be just as dangerous and antisocial as excessive speed


There is no need to feel guilty for driving at less than the speed limit if that is what safety requires, and I would never condemn anyone for doing so; indeed, I have frequently pointed out that speed limits represent a maximum, not a safe speed for all conditions.

Excessive speed is a causal factor in relatively few accidents (less than 10 per cent). Nevertheless, crude or not, speed limits save lives, and nobody in their right mind would argue against their sensible application. Irrespective of what limit is attached to a particular section of road, and whether it is sensible or not, we all have a duty to drive legally and, more importantly, safely.

Like other responsible drivers, I may choose to drive below a given speed limit if it isn't safe to proceed any quicker. But this requires judgment. To drive along a motorway at 30mph in good conditions because I didn't want to go any faster would not be a safe thing to do.

Similarly, if you drive at 40mph in a 50mph zone when there is no justification for such caution, you should not be surprised if a queue of drivers builds up behind you. And at that point you should take their rights and feelings into account as well as your own. How would you feel if you were held up by someone who shared your philosophy, but regarded 20mph as the ideal speed?

We all have to share the available road space, and to do so safely requires co-operation, courtesy and compassion. Yet some motorists don't seem to understand the effect they have on others. Persistent dawdling and/or obstruction can wreak havoc on the tempers of following drivers who lack a masters degree in patience, and their increasingly desperate attempts to overtake can be highly dangerous.

It is foolish of them to take risks, but the slowcoach at the head of the procession must share some of the responsibility for allowing the situation to arise. We are dealing with humans, not robots.

It is said of some drivers that thay have never have had an accident but have caused hundreds, and there is an element of truth in that stereotype. It is certainly hard to believe that the many drivers who travel everywhere at a steady 40mph - 20mph below the speed limit on the open road, but 10mph above the limit in villages and towns - are safer than those who vary their speed according to the prevailing conditions and the posted limit.

Try to ensure that when you drive below the limit you do so for a good and justifiable reason and not because you are unaware of the needs of others or get some kind of kick out of imposing your philosophy on them. If you really don't feel comfortable at a higher speed, allow following drivers to overtake you, as The Highway Code demands.

And if you find yourself in a procession but are unwilling to pass those ahead of you, then for goodness' sake leave an adequate space between you and the car in front so that those who wish to overtake can safely slot into the gap as they work their way past the queue; forcing a driver to overtake several vehicles at once, or making it hard for him to pull in, is a recipe for disaster. Selfish drivers are bad drivers, and potentially dangerous at any speed.

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Simon

I think you need to think about about the speed limit. It's not a minimum, but a maximum. It's not a recommendation, but an absolute top limit. You've got nothing to grumble about.

PS: you can be anti-surveillance without being a speed merchant.

Who the heck is that bonehead? There is no need to feel guilty for driving at less
than the speed limit at all. That's your choice and your right. One must feel guilty
about trying to interfere with someone who is engaged in a rightful and legal activity.

Yes we can, by complaining about the policy shift away from what would have been methods better than the 'surveillance', arising from the false claims of the effectiveness of the 'surveillance'; thereby needlessly increasing the risk and unpleasantness on our roads.

Speaking as someone who has never-ever been done for "being a speed merchant"

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I couldn't agree more, but it is unhelpful for anti-surveillance campaigners to complain about those who are engaged in perfectly reasonable, legal and rightful behavior. This chap grumbles about 25 in the 40 mph zone, or 63% of the max limit. I rarely do more than 50 or 55 in the m-way. Would I enrage him as well? If so, good, because he needs straightening out.

If prevailing traffic and weather conditions permit travel at a posted speed limit, then the driver who - for whatever reason - decides to drive at less than the said limit, is interfering in the actions of the other driver who wishes to drive legally at the posted speed limit. It is not, as you say, illegal, to drive at less than the posted limit. Neither is it illegal for another driver to overtake, where appropriate, and to proceed at a faster rate but at, or below, the speed limit.

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Simon

The person caught doing 10mph on the motorway thought the same - she was banned!


Some might define that as reasonable, others won't if it is maintained without the driver pulling over to let the queue behind pass (besides, it's bad for mileage). PS, needlessly doing less than 57% of the motorway limit risks a pull from trafpol.


What a silly strawman. One can easily overtake on a motorway so it doesn't matter anywhere near as much! Besides, some are forced into doing ~55 on a motorway so it won't be their fault.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The mentality I have when I'm driving:

Be safe.
Be alert.
Make good progress without impeding others.
Enjoy yourself, but never at the expense of the safety of yourself or other road users.

Driving at 25mph through a 40mph (except in adverse conditions of course) breaks the second part of rule 3 (impeding others' progress) - and possibly rule 2 (lack of alertness leads to lack of progress).

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Magistrates rule #1: "Never let justice get in the way of a conviction."

It is possible to be stopped for driving under the speed limit without obvious reason - the charge would be driving without due care and attention I guess. Some years ago a car doing 28mph in a 40mph limit in front of me got pulled over after a couple of miles by the cop car that had been sat behind me.

So the slow driver might not feel guilty but he could very well be guilty.

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

I think that the charge would be driving without reasonable consideration for other road users rather than without due care and attention.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

One persons perception of safe can easily not be anothers.
The person driving at 25 in a 40 limit may have decided that there was some risk at driving faster than that speed.
He/she may even have been overtaken if they were driving at 40 in a 40 limit.
So many people drive faster than the maximum [supposed] allowed speed now, so many drive faster than 30 in a 30 limit.
My village is shortly to have a 20 limit for periods during school times, and 30 before/after. How many will go faster than the limit.
At the moment it is 40.....
1 death
1 serious injury.
Several accidents.
Including one guy who wiped-out a traffic island because he thought that 40 was not fast enough so decided to overtake, but clearly didn't have the ability to recognise the keep right illuminated sign and post.
Recent speed checks showed that 70% of drivers were faster than the speed limit (40) past the school.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Yes - that's his right, and we have nothing to grumble about.

Why should I pull over - how would I gain from that? On the other hand, as a catholic, I might do
them a good turn, from time to time, to be in the Lord's good book. But they must never expect it.



If you can give me some legal reference on it, it might be interesting. What does the law say, exactly?



One the one hand, you tell me it's "wrong" to go less than 40 mph on the m-way, then you say
it matters not. Is there some "minimum limit" on the m-way? We need to get this sorted out.

But was any guilt established? 70% of the absolute maximum seems perfectly fine. If the driver of the car had been black, such an incident could have made the national news, so coppers must take care.

does anyone remember the "minimum speed" limit signs (number on a blue circular background)?
Also may I challenge Speed camera supporters to for once debate methods of safe driving which do not involve "speed", may include subtle actions not required to pass the test but are gained through experience and looking at the bigger picture of safe driving, and can mean the difference of life and death, or will we be met with the robotic line of "30mph, slam brakes on, 30mph, slam brakes on".

I was driving along a twisting country NSL road this A.M. when I came across a horse trailer doing about 30 MPH with a line of about six cars behind him, how refreshing when he pulled over at the first layby and let us pass before pulling out again. Why can't slower drivers with a big line of cars tailing them also do the same? I have driven a few "sick" cars in my time with slipping clutches, knackerd gearboxes,holes in pistons etc , just to get them home but I am always aware of what traffic I am holding up and try to maintain as much speed as possible or pull over where I feel that I am becoming a "nuisance".

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.