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IanG
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 09:30 
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Thanks to all for the suggestions about leaving a gap. I think I did (it was way back in Sep 2002 and I'm still chasing this guy for my money!), but the environment was a dense built up area (actually the A5 in the middle of Dunstable where the traffic is more or less stationary all the time), so escape routes were non existant as I had pavement on the left and traffic on my right. I looked in my mirror a bit too late to see him yacking to his mate and approaching too close.

But regarding gaps, there is a country road near me where the queue flows back over a blind hump back bridge, boy, that is a nervous place to stop until someone else comes up behind. I always put my hazzard lights on as I am invisible and/or wait way back to I can be seen. (This is just what I have learnt during 30 odd years of driving but the tyres & tarmac rule is worth remembering).
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IanH
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 09:31 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Just for clarity I'd like to add to the 'stop well short' that I wrote earlier.

In a rural type situation I normally come to a stop several hundred feet short if there's no visible traffic behind. I'll wait in this position ready to drive on when something appears in the mirror. If they don't look like stopping I can give them a great deal of space to loose speed in.

In an urban type situation I stop around 5 car lengths short of an obstruction ahead and again monitor the mirror.

These behaviours might be adjusted depending on the amount visibility available to following traffic. If there's a bend before the obstruction, I'll try really hard to ensure that I'm visible to traffic approaching the bend. On occasions (and given good knowledge of lack of traffic behind) I have reversed around a bend so that approaching traffic can see me at an early stage. Obviously such a move should only be undertaken if knowledge of following traffic is sufficient to ensure safety.

When in traffic, I'd never move closer than 'Tyres and Tarmac' or Tyres Touching Tarmac'. If I'm last in the queue I'd always allow far more.

If circumstances dictate that it's unwise to leave a big gap in front (as might be the case if there's a bend close behind - moving forward gives more room for following traffic to brake) then you really need to be looking for escapes to the side. I'll be asking myself if I can drive forwards to the left onto the verge or the right (possibly onto the other side of the road if sufficiently clear).

I don't stop monitoring traffic behind until about 4 or five behind have actually stopped. A heavy vehicle at speed can easily shunt 4 stationary cars together. In order to be able to continue to monitor after a couple of vehicles have stopped behind, you'll need to give one of your door mirrors a view past the traffic behind, so I'll be positioned deliberately well to the left or the right. Such positioning is highly compatible with a forwards and left or right escape route.


Interesting stuff, and designed for current driving conditions where someone who thinks seriously about his/her safety can provide the luxurious safety gaps which Paul allows.
It'd make for some interesting traffic flow situations if everyone drove that way..... But it's the case that while people are not taking full responsibility for their own safety, it is the duty of the COAST driver to build in the extra safety cushions to fully protect themselves and help protect others.

I think the important point to take is that there is quite a lot which can be done to mitigate the rear shunt. Observation Anticipation and Planning (offering the space and time to react) could save your life.

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SCE
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 09:58 
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I had same sort of accident, hit from behind while stationary at lights, and i kept checking rear mirror ( as well as all around ) but still got hit. Luckily for me the other driver must have admitted responsibility to his insurance company as within 4 days i had letter from them accepting liability.

I had stopped so that i could see the stop line at lights, so when hit although i was pushed forward a half a cars length i was still behind stop line and not into junction ( and other traffic ).

However, while i make even more space now, there is always the possibility that the space you leave may well contain a cyclist or pedestrian and to move forward to avoid an accident is no longer an option. So there is not always a way of avoiding being hit from behind, no matter how much space you leave or observant you are - but every little helps.
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SafeSpeed
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 13:10 
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IanH wrote:
It'd make for some interesting traffic flow situations if everyone drove that way.....


There are some practical modifications in heavier traffic flows when there just happens to be a temporary space behind. I'll stop just as far short, but start rolling forward earlier when traffic appears behind. I certainly don't 'start another hold up' 200 feet behind the first hold up! :)

I should write this up properly shouldn't I? It'd make a worthy Safe Speed page.

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SafeSpeed
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 13:16 
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IanG wrote:
But regarding gaps, there is a country road near me where the queue flows back over a blind hump back bridge, boy, that is a nervous place to stop until someone else comes up behind. I always put my hazzard lights on as I am invisible and/or wait way back to I can be seen. (This is just what I have learnt during 30 odd years of driving but the tyres & tarmac rule is worth remembering).


The hazard light don't help if you can't be seen.

But if this is regular, then you should be planning to come to a stop on the brow of the bridge. Ifthe traffic ahead is stopped, then stay there.

* You'll be safe from the risk of crashing into stationary traffic yourself.
* You can wait on the brow to signal stationary traffic ahead to following traffic.
* You can drive forward if someone STILL hasn't seen you.
* You'll be able to see everything - forwards and backwards.

You can take almost complete control in these situations - so take it! :)

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SafeSpeed
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 13:18 
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SCE wrote:
So there is not always a way of avoiding being hit from behind, no matter how much space you leave or observant you are - but every little helps.


Nothing is perfect I agree. But these strategies can reduce the risk by at least 90% (in my estimation).

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Pete317
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 13:53 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
In a rural type situation I normally come to a stop several hundred feet short if there's no visible traffic behind. I'll wait in this position ready to drive on when something appears in the mirror. If they don't look like stopping I can give them a great deal of space to loose speed in.


Just one caveat - you have to be sure that you're not exacerbating the situation.
A person driving along probably isn't expecting the traffic ahead to be stopped. They then see a car ahead and don't give it much thought. They expect that it's doing much the same speed as they are - especially from a distance. But that car is going a good deal slower, and they don't realise this. They then see the brake lights come on and prepare to start braking themselves. But the car ahead is ging to stop in a much shorter distance than they realise, and they only come to this realisation when it's far too late.
Unfortunately there's really no 'one size fits all' solution - you have to play it as it lays.

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Peter
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SafeSpeed
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 14:59 
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Pete317 wrote:
SafeSpeed wrote:
In a rural type situation I normally come to a stop several hundred feet short if there's no visible traffic behind. I'll wait in this position ready to drive on when something appears in the mirror. If they don't look like stopping I can give them a great deal of space to loose speed in.


Just one caveat - you have to be sure that you're not exacerbating the situation.


Absolutely. Advanced or defensive driving always majors on the big picture, but it's always hard to get the big picture into these forum posts. I already had to revisit the topic giving more detail, and now there are several further factors that really should be added. I've put writing a web page on the subject on my 'to do' list, but it's quite a big list...

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