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SafeSpeedv2
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 00:28 
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MCN - Steve Farrell wrote:
The £800,000 speed camera cock-up
By Steve Farrell - 25 April 2010 21:27

High-tech new speed cameras on one of the country’s most popular bike routes are useless due to an apparent oversight.
The new cameras are aimed at catching motorcyclists on the A537 Cat and Fiddle road from Macclesfield to Buxton, Derbyshire.
They have been installed at five points along the road and riders are timed between them to calculate their average speed.
But camera bosses have apparently failed to take into account that between two of the sites there is a shortcut with a higher speed limit.

The cameras depend on a distance-over-time calculation to determine speed. But the shortcut shaves a third of a mile off the distance, rendering the calculation inaccurate.

The shortcut also has a 60mph speed limit whereas the A537 is a 50mph zone.

The Cheshire Safer Roads Partnership has spent £800,000 installing the cameras.
Partnership manager Lee Murphy said the cameras were functioning but no-one had yet been prosecuted.
He acknowledged the flaw but denied it was an oversight.
“We’re looking at that now as an issue for us,” he said. “There are a couple of calculations to be made and we’re just testing it out now and we’ll have a view on it.”

For a map showing the location of the shortcut, and to read how the cameras could issue a penalty to someone who hasn’t broken the limit, get MCN, on sale now.

Hardly good practice on every level. The shortcut is a good road and an NSL whereas the main road is of higher quality & 50mph. They have wasted good money on this pointless scheme, when educating motorists to attain better skills, would have been a far better with far longer lasting, plans.
I cannot see the point in frustrating motorists to deliberately go slower than required. [See effects ...]

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Steve
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 01:31 
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I suspect the following are the roads in question:

3.1 miles at 50mph

2.6 miles at NSL
There are steeper gradients on the latter, but I doubt this would add up to much. Assuming it doesn't:
2.6 miles at 60mph = 156 seconds.
3.1 miles over 156 seconds = 71.5mph, a bit worrying for a 50 limit!

The location of the cameras will affect the amount of error. I don't know where the SPECS cameras are located - if at all.
if there really is a pair enforcing between these two Google pegs (shown in the links) then they really have messed it up!

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dcbwhaley
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 07:38 
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Steve wrote:
I suspect the following are the roads in question:


Almost certainly. I use that short cut if I get stuck behind lorries on the major road and often hike there.

Quote:
There are steeper gradients on the latter, but I doubt this would add up to much.

The alternative road has fewer bends but more hills. It is fairly narrow, carries agricultural traffic and tends to have a lot of walkers on it at weekends. If these cameras encourage motorcyclists to use it at 60mph they are doing a great disservice to road safety

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malcolmw
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 07:42 
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This has little to do with safety and a lot to do with control. They will spend any amount of public money to ensure that a very small number of motorcyclists are caught even though it's a pointless waste of resources.

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dcbwhaley
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 07:49 
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malcolmw wrote:
This has little to do with safety and a lot to do with control. They will spend any amount of public money to ensure that a very small number of motorcyclists are caught even though it's a pointless waste of resources.

I am not entirely convinced of that. It is more about being seen to do something. There is a genuine problem with motorcycle accidents on the Cat and Fiddle road and, locally, a genuine desire to do something about it. But imposing a 50mph limit on all traffic isn't the way to do it.

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Homer
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 17:36 
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I imagine the shortcut will be getting a 40, or even a 30 limit fairly soon.
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ollie
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 17:41 
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Just wait for the full speed limit revue and the short cut will be brought down to 50MPH or possibly even less. Any bets!!!!OLLIE
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dcbwhaley
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 19:12 
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ollie wrote:
Just wait for the full speed limit revue and the short cut will be brought down to 50MPH or possibly even less. Any bets!!!!OLLIE


Which would not inconvenience any safe driver. It is not a road on which a prudent driver - 1,2 or 4 wheels, would exceed 40mph.

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SafeSpeedv2
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 00:47 
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dcbwhaley wrote:
malcolmw wrote:
This has little to do with safety and a lot to do with control. They will spend any amount of public money to ensure that a very small number of motorcyclists are caught even though it's a pointless waste of resources.

I am not entirely convinced of that. It is more about being seen to do something. There is a genuine problem with motorcycle accidents on the Cat and Fiddle road and, locally, a genuine desire to do something about it. But imposing a 50mph limit on all traffic isn't the way to do it.

The 'control issues' also act as a (sales) 'convincer' to help to ensure the motorists required total & complete compliance. They want strict compliance and if not enforcement will follow.
This fails to address so many issues such as :
risk management & judgment, education, interest in driving / riding, the desire to learn more, improve skills, ability & knowledge, perception & understanding of potential & developing hazards, see Here
Just because they make it 40, 50, 60 or 70 cannot therefor magically make it safe, accidents happen within and outwith the speed limit, it is driver / rider's ability to judge and manage risk well that helps prevent accidents.
Make a rider/driver better and they are far far less likely to crash.
Make a rider/rider bored and uninterested in that activity, and they can 'turn off' becoming even disillusioned adding to the frustration and inattention.
Then the frustration and inattention leads to further accidents. This is a really, really bad idea.
We must never 'over protect', it removes practice and experiences that when needed are just not there. The 'nanny effect' - too much protection makes us less able to ensure our own safety.

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