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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 16:13 
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http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8261145 ... rously___/
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A police officer drove “ludicrously” and “dangerously” as he chased another driver along one of Hampshire’s busiest roads, a court heard.

Sergeant Sean Harvey pursued Trevor Dalton for several miles at speeds up to 70mph after he undertook him on the dual carriageway and made an obscene gesture at him.

Mr Dalton’s BMW had been in the outside lane of the westbound A31 in the New Forest when Harvey’s silver Fiesta pulled out in front of him to overtake a lorry, causing him to slow down.

Mr Dalton told jurors at Guildford Crown Court how he then saw the Fiesta’s hazard lights flashing and when it stayed in the outside lane, Mr Dalton decided to pass it in the nearside lane.
He then described how Harvey, who was in his own car, followed him at speeds of up to 70 miles per hour until he eventually pulled in front of him forcing Mr Dalton’s car to stop in the outside lane next to the central reservation.

It was only when Harvey approached the car and made a grab for the keys that Mr Dalton said he realised he was a police officer.

Unbeknown to either man part of the drama – which happened between Picket Post and Ringwood – had been witnessed by PC Symon Warren, 45, who was driving home after a shift when the incident happened at around 2.45pm on June 2 last year.

Giving evidence PC Warren, a traffic officer for seven years with Hampshire police, said he saw the two cars side by side on the carriageway as he approached them in the outside lane doing up to 80mph.

Describing the driving of the Fiesta he said: “It was being steered into lane one, they were level and extremely close. I thought it was going to barge the car straight off the road. It looked as though he was trying to ram him off the road at that stage.”

As he drew closer to the two cars PC Warren said he recognised Harvey as they had once been stationed together and lived in the same town.

He decided to intervene by getting between the two vehicles to allow the BMW to get away. But when he did so the Fiesta came up inches behind him, he said.

“I thought it was ludicrous and dangerous,” he added.

The court was told PC Warren drove straight to Ringwood police station to report the incident.

Harvey, 42, of Thorne Close, Verwood, denies dangerous driving.
Proceeding.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 16:51 
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A HAMPSHIRE police officer told a court that he was shocked and stunned when he heard he could face prosecution for dangerous driving after he tried to pull a car over on a dual carriageway.

Sergeant Sean Harvey told jurors that he felt he had driven “lawfully and proportionately”

as he tried to pull over a BMW driven by Trevor Dalton along the A31 in the New Forest after he had undertaken him.

Harvey told jurors he had first noticed the BMW as he pulled his Ford Fiesta out to overtake a lorry and the car came up quickly behind him at speeds of between 80mph and 90mph.

He said he put on his hazard lights to warn the driver to back off and then indicated to return to the inside lane, but before he could do so the BMW had already moved there.

Harvey, an officer since 1996, said he made the decision then to speak to the driver, before he then saw him making an obscene gesture at him.

Guildford Crown Court heard him explain that he then gestured to the driver to pull over, produced his warrant card and showed him a police radio to indicate he was a police officer.

The court heard how he was on duty, returning to Ringwood police station in the Fiesta which was not a police car.

Harvey said despite his efforts Mr Dalton did not pull over, and when he didn’t he began thinking that he might be drunk or wanted on a warrant.

“I still believe as I do today that the driver was trying to evade being stopped,” he said.

He then said he tried to keep the car within his sights as it made its way along the A31 from Bratley Arch to the Ringwood roundabout where Harvey was eventually able to get in front of him and cause him to stop.

Asked whether he believed his actions were right, Harvey said: “I believe it is what the public would expect from a police officer in uniform.

They would expect a member of the constabulary to deal with someone like that.”

In his evidence Mr Dalton said he had no idea Harvey was a police officer until he forced him to stop and introduced himself as an officer.

As reported in yesterday’s Daily Echo the initial part of the incident was witnessed by off duty police officer PC Symon Warren who told the court that he felt Harvey’s driving was dangerous as he saw him trying to “barge” the BMW off the road. It was PC Warren who later reported him.

Earlier PC Warren described the driving as the worst he had ever seen.

Under cross examination he was asked whether he had a grudge against Harvey.

Defence counsel Tom Godfrey said: “Did he make a pass at your wife? Did you owe him money? Were you jealous of him?”

PC Warren replied: “I have nothing against him.” He said the whole episode had put him in an awkward situation.

Harvey, 42, of Thorne Close, Verwood, denies dangerous driving.

Proceeding

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 19:16 
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This off-duty BiB obviously thinks members of the public are going to pull over whenever someone signals them to do so, because we'll assume they are an off-duty BiB and not an angry nutter.

Actually this fellow would appear to have been both.

Also, one might argue that if you have pulled into L2 to pass a truck early enough that it was feasible for faster traffic coming up behind to consider undertaking you, then you pulled in to L2 too early.

Sadly I see this on the A31 all the bloody time: "Oooh I better pull out to pass this lorry before the faster vehicle approaching from behind gets there first."

Muppets.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 21:23 
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It seams a bit extreme two police officers from the same station giving counter statements in court. If I were there commander I would have wrapped this incident up and giving them a rolliking they would never forget and split them up.

The defendants boss must hate him? Or this police force, sorry servive, is about to implode.....
I have had my dealings with them and they can be.... :soapbox: :loco: :censored: :scratchchin: :roll:

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 23:37 
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As JTB says, if you are in the situation where you are in the position whereby another vehicle has the oportunity to "undertake" you, you then have to ask yourself, "am I in the wrong lane for too long?"

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 14:42 
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This duel carriageway suffers from long hills and a queue waiting to overtake. The driver may have been guilty of leaving a 3 second gap in that queue. there is a section of 13+ miles without any houses with good visability. comments about speed are only relitive to traffic conditions. The road has visability and design when empty to achieve nsl X 2 on some sections.
however it is very rarely empty. (5am between xmas and new year?)

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 17:52 
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Quote:
JURORS have cleared a police sergeant of dangerous driving on one of Hampshire’s busiest roads.

Three men and nine women deliberated for about two hours before acquitting Sgt Sean Harvey. They also returned a similar verdict on the alternative charge of careless driving.

Sgt Harvey declined to speak to the Daily Echo after the case because he could still face an internal Hampshire police investigation.

Instead Police Federation representative PC Terry Chard issued a brief statement on his behalf.

He said: “He is very pleased with the verdict. The jury has come to the right conclusion.

“It has been a hard ordeal which has lasted 13 months not just for himself but also his family.”

Sgt Harvey, 42, of Thorne Close, Verwood, has been suspended from police driving duties since the allegation in June of last year.

Jurors heard how he had chased BMW driver Trevor Dalton for several miles after he had undertaken him on the busy A31 dual carriageway in the New Forest and made an obscene gesture at him.

He had been in the outside lane when the officer driving an unmarked police vehicle pulled out in front of him to pass a lorry.

Mr Dalton said he then saw his hazard lights flashing and when he stayed in the outside lane, he undertook him.

It was not until the officer caused him to stop and grab his keys that he realised he was a police officer.

The incident between Picket Post and Ringwood was witnessed by traffic officer PC Symon Warren, who reported him. PC Warren, who was on his way home after a shift, told jurors he considered Sgt Harvey had driven “ludicrously”

and “dangerously”.

Giving evidence at Guildford Crown Court, Sgt Harvey denied that he had reacted after being offended by the gesture.

He said: “I see that sort of thing every day in my work. I wanted to speak to Mr Dalton before he made the gesture.

He was driving dangerously and with excessive speed.”

Disagreeing with a suggestion he had thrown his weight about, he added: “I don’t come from that background. What I did was reasonable in the circumstances.”

The court heard written testimonials from retired colleague John Noble, who described him as 100 per cent trustworthy and committed to the police.

Inspector Jacqueline Wilson praised him as being conscientious, patient and motivated.

Both said they had never seen or heard him lose his temper.

Sgt Paul Selby, giving evidence in person, described Sgt Harvey’s character as calm and considered. He added: “He is a very good police officer and friend. He is also a very good family man.”

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 18:15 
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Anyone want to lay odds on chasing an off-duty plod for three miles and making obscene gestures at them and getting off scot-free?

:roll: and again I say :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 18:45 
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Reflecting on the facts presented

1. he was charged with dangerous driving with an alternitive charge of careless driving
2. he claims to have shown his warrent card + police radio and brought the car to a stop in lane 2 of 2. He claims to have still been on duty.
3. On this board most of us accept a speed of 90mph is not dangerous on its own. The courts also have recognised that PC Mark Milton was not dangerous at 138? mph
4 Stopping a car in lane 2, if done right is an aproved police proceedure. There is no hard sholder on the A31

There was no collision, how could this be dangerous or careless?

I believe his decision to stop rather than use police radio was misguided
I think the decision to forward this incident to the court was misguided

It confirms my opinions of Hampshire police... see my new signiture
There have been a number of road accidents where the driver is arrested & refered to the courts without the application of the CPS code. The jury may not understand that they are the first rather than the third line of judgement.

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 21:21 
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whats the deal with the hazard lights ??


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 07:43 
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anton wrote:
There was no collision, how could this be dangerous or careless?

The fact that there is no collision does not automatically mean that the driving was safe

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... see my new signiture

It would seem that PC Harvey was acting contrary to the sentiments expressed in your signature when he started his pursuit of Dalton for what was, at worst, a very minor infringement. It seems. from the facts presented, that he was acting out of spite rather than necessity and for that alone deserves some censure.

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When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 07:49 
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ed_m wrote:
whats the deal with the hazard lights ??


"PC Harvey said he put on his hazard lights to warn the driver to back off". An offence under the Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations. There are very limited circumstances under which it is legal to use hazard flashers whilst moving and warning a driver to back off isn't one of them.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 08:44 
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His driving may not have been "safe" however I do not believe it was unsafe enough to meet the legal defination of dangerous driving or careless driving. In the aspect of making a police stop, which he claims he was doing. there was a risk element. However the risk of collision was higher than normal. the risk of injury was very low.

My new signiture referes to the Crown Prosicution Service taking cases to court , not police officers making a decision to make a traffic stop. I am suprised at the decision to take this to court

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:36 
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reading the two newspaper reports and in view that an experienced traffic officer thought that Harvey's driving was dangerous , I would have to agree and it seems he acted like a right pratt (can't understand why, if he was ON duty, why he was in his own car) and seemed to do everything wrong possible by acting like a typical road rage motorist. No wonder the guy in the BMW was reluctant to pull over, when confronted with some one acting like that.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 16:42 
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That's what I mean. To the BMW driver he could have been BiB or someone like Raoul Moat. :loco:


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