Safe Speed Forums

The particular stretch of road I have in mind is the A66 2-lane dual carriageway from Stockton into Middlesbrough. It is a 50 mph limit with no speed cameras and ignored by a lot of users. Most of the joining slip are short and more have just been added with a new link road. This means that joining traffic is likely to be travelling at less than 50 mph. You are driving in lane 1 at 50 mph, traffic is approaching from the left at less than this. Most drivers drive straight onto the main carriageway without giving way to drivers already on it.
The safe solution is obviously stay in lane 1 and adjust one's speed to that of the merging traffic when rule 233 of the highway code says otherwise (I know rule 233 is for Motorways but it applies equally to grade separated dual carriageways). Pulling out into lane 2 is not an option with speeding traffic approaching from behind.
Is this the right thing to do in the circumstances?

The safest thing of all is to move out (i.e. into L2) well in advance of the short slips and ensure that you're not overtaking at the merge point. The advanced version of this plan involves adjusting your speed to ensure that you arrive at the merge point with no other vehicles anywhere near. Sometimes I'll even deliberately open a gap in front by slowing down and then accelerate into it to create a gap behind.

If you find yourself in L1 adjusting your speed to create space and suit the merging traffic is the best option. Frequently the safest version of the speed adjustment will be to below the speed of the merging traffic, but each situation will need to be judged individually.

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Paul Smith
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Cyclist - knowing that traffic will join at less than 50 mph into L1 - YOU get on before this junction - why not make an effort before the junction to speed up to 50 and join L2 so that you can let traffic join L1 with trhe minimum of hazard.
Alternatively drive slowely from Stockton to MBRO - not very far - I have cycled it in years of old.

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Believe a certain Bib quite often mentions "anticipation" . Why not add courtesy to it as well.
Sooner or later some impatient driver will force its way out , L1(possibly L2 AS WELL) will grind to a halt with possibly a nasty accident and give the scamera pratnership an excellent excuse to put in some cameras.
Junction coming up - "anticipate, "are there vehicles about to join - can i safely move over to allow them to join without problems - you do - and hopefully instead of alienating someone , you have shown the old fashioned virtues of courtesy.
Apart from that - a stopped vehicle needs more time to get up to 50 than one at 35, so it needs even more space in L1 accelerating causing more to move to L2

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Actually i think someone else had the same idea as me but we phrased it differently.
I believe Paul said -
The safest thing of all is to move out (i.e. into L2) well in advance of the short slips and ensure that you're not overtaking at the merge point. The advanced version of this plan involves adjusting your speed to ensure that you arrive at the merge point with no other vehicles anywhere near. Sometimes I'll even deliberately open a gap in front by slowing down and then accelerate into it to create a gap behind.

If you find yourself in L1 adjusting your speed to create space and suit the merging traffic is the best option. Frequently the safest version of the speed adjustment will be to below the speed of the merging traffic, but each situation will need to be judged individually.

Surely there has to be a bit of give and take here. Of course people on the slip road should give priority to those on the mainline (note that the HC does not say "give way") but those on the mainline should also, if reasonable to do so, help them to merge by backing off a little or moving out to Lane 2.

Safety is not helped by people resolutely sticking to what they perceive to be their rights. In my view anyone who maintains his course and speed in Lane 1 (when it was possible to do otherwise) and thus prevents someone merging from the slip road is guilty of inconsiderate and possibly dangerous driving. I would like to see words to this effect included in the Highway Code.

This is especially relevant for the many merges where there are two lanes on the slip road which are separated by a "tiger-tail" as they join the mainline. If you can't merge into the mainline from Lane 2, you have no hard shoulder for refuge, you're stuck in the middle of a motorway, in an incredibly dangerous and exposed position.

In cases like this the joining of the lanes should be treated more as a zip-merge than a give way.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

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So you would maintain your course and speed (even if it was possible to change them) - even if it resulted in causing a collision or leaving someone stranded stationary on the hatching of a tiger-tail?

You seem to have a very selfish, "I'm in the right, so sod you!" attitude to driving.

Safety is achieved through co-operation, not by self-righteously sticking to the letter of the law.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I know I keep banging on about it but this is a prime example of a problem which is readily solved by adequate following distances.

If I am in lane 1 approaching a joining slip road and see another vehicle joining from the slip road (and assuming that other traffic 2 prevents me from easily moving into lane 2) , then, if I have left a decent (minimum 2 seconds) gap in front and the vehicle behind me (if any) has left a similar gap, I have two equally easy options to facilitate the joiner with no inconvenience to myself :

(i) I can ease off the throttle a little, allowing the joiner plenty of space to slot in ahead of me, matching his speed to the prevailing lane 1 speed; or (depending on exact positioning)

(ii) I can accelerate slightly into the gap ahead, allowing the joiner plenty of space to slot in behind me, again matching his speed to the prevailing lane 1 speed.

No fuss or bother - just an easy merge.

Indeed, but you are being accommodating to joining traffic, which FJSRiDER seems to disapprove of.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Heavy traffic might prevent a move into L2, but it doesn't prevent you from backing off and opening a gap into which the merging traffic can safely enter...

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In the heavy traffic conditions which you seem to prefer using to support your point of view, someone coming down a split slip road as described above certainly would end up stranded in a dangerous place if the main carriageway traffic was so heavy that, if they were to obey the "give priority" rule, they were unable to join L1 at all.

And given the design of some other slip roads which provide barely any space to accelerate up to a suitable merging speed even if you've got a rolling start, it would be near suicidal for the merging driver to even attempt to join the motorway having come to a (near) halt in order to give priority to L1 traffic, unless they waited patiently for however long it took for a suitably large gap to open up... do you really think it's acceptable to block access to a motorway for what could be a considerable length of time at certain times of the day, simply to ensure the give priority rule is enforced?




It's not obvious at all that it HAS to happen, particularly not if your favourite rule is observed. Even then, the driver coming down the slip-road gives priority to the driver in L1, but there's nothing in the Highway Code which says the driver in L1 can't then give that priority back to the driver on the slip-road...




You're missing the point. We're not justifying poor driving, we're justifying considerate driving.

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Steady on fellas, I think everyone is getting a little bit too confrontational on this thread.

Can I suggest everyone takes a deep breath and counts to ten before making any more replies.

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If nothing else works, then a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.

point in case:

i was joining a dual-carraigeway last night.
the slip road was plenty long enough and dropped down from the junction above so i was up to around the the same speed as traffic i could see ahead on the road. another car was 2seconds ahead (ok.. 1.5).

as we came down alongside the carraigeway there was a car in L1 almost alongside me, i could see he couldn't move over as L2 was chocca and he couldnt really accelerate into the car ahead of me so i had to brake (not just back off as the remaining slip wasnt that long) to tuck in behind.
there was room for the car ahead to slip infront which would probably have been best, and then adjust the gaps afterwards! but the driver was rather spooked by this and so focussed on their mirror they almost drove onto the grass.

by this stage the car already in L1 & myself were able to get into L2 without a problem and avoid the panic lane change they had to make to join the carraigeway.

definitely a near miss there..... who was in the wrong?
not much the guy already on the carrigeway could do unless they'd anticipated it & pulled into L2 a long way back.
not a great deal we could do joining other than get up to speed and hope there's a gap for you when L1 is visible enough to make a judgement.

But letting someone off a slip road in front of you isn't making up a rule, nor is it breaking the existing rule. Nowhere does it say someone already on the main carriageway MUST take priority over someone on the slip road, it only says that someone on the slip road should give priority to the driver on the main carriageway. Whether that driver chooses to take the priority given to them, or give it back to the driver on the slip road, is then a matter of individual choice.




I didn't, no. Doesn't mean it's wrong to let someone out though, does it.





No it doesn't. It only HAS to happen if the person on the slip road decides to pull out into your lane without giving way, and if in doing so they'd end up occupying the same piece of road as you'd have done if you hadn't backed off, but it's not true to say that all drivers do pull out without giving way, or without better adjusting their speed so as to fit into an available gap without causing any other traffic to alter their speed/direction.




I was only intending to light-heartedly poke fun at your apparent love for this particular rule, given the way you're defending it so strongly against a variety of posters who all agree that there are times when it makes sense to ignore it in an attempt to improve traffic flow. Sorry if you thought I was being in any way insulting.