Safe Speed Forums

ROSPA Care on the Road Magazine, April 2005

Cyclists and lights

Lynne Jones, MP for Birmingham Selly Oak, asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department for the latest statistics on the number of cyclists who were cautioned and charged for going through red lights in Great Britain.

Caroline Flint, Home Office Minister, said statistics of defendants charged with crimes are not collected centrally. Latest figures show that there were two pedal cyclists cautioned and 38 proceeded against at magistrates courts in England and Wales

For the offence of neglect of traffic directions there were 25 cyclists cautioned and 213 proceeded against in magistrates courts in England and Wales.

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Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.

And what are the figures for motorists.

How many people were killed or seriously injured as a result of a cyclist running a red light compared to motorists.

I feel a bit of an anti cyclist thread here, not at all in the spirit of the Safe Speed forum which promotes tolerance and inclusion of all road users, for the safety and benefit of all.

Now I'm sure you are going to argue the point of this topic.

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

Neil, I'm not entirely anti-cyclist. I just can' t stand the ones who cannot and will not obey traffic laws, thereby putting themselves and other road users at risk-pedestrians included. It kind of restores my faith in the judicial system to see that cyclists who commit traffic offences are actually dealt with to a considerable degree. It really makes my blood boil to see a cyclist jump a red light and ride on the pavement, giving the excuse, "But the roads are too congested". My understanding is that the law doesn't accept that as an excuse.

If I drove my Nissan Micra through a red light and then drove it on the pavement, I'd be up in front of the beak in no time and would never see my driving licence again. If you saw a cyclist jump a red light, would you ignore it?

Either as a pedestrian or a motorist, I'm quite happy to share the roads with sensible, saftety-conscious cyclists. There are reckless cyclists out there who should be dealt with in the same way that the courts deal with reckless motorists.

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Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.

Neil

I believe that's beside the point. While by no means every cyclist is reckless, the few that are give the rest a bad name and deserve to be punished. I'm sure most cyclists won't arue about that.
Cyclists recklessly jumping lights can and do cause KSI's, by causing motorists to swerve to avoid them and lose control or hit some other party.
And cyclists do kill pedestrians - albeit no more than a handful in a year, but if one compares the number of miles done by cars vs cycles...

Cheers
Peter

That’s far more like it. I just wanted to see a bit more of a reasoned debate. I agree with you when it comes to the acts of some cyclists (in case you didn’t guess, I’m a very keen cyclist)

I hope you didn't take my quip the wrong way (that's why I put a few fun emoticons in).

When I'm head to toe in lycra on my flying machine, I find the main problem I have is with motorist’s perception of giving me safe room to manoeuvre. My skinny little wheels are easily damaged, so road defects are a hazard which I have to avoid. I'm glad to say I can go on some fairly quiet mountain roads in my area, but at some point always hit a busy road.

Now I may sound a bit of a killjoy, but perhaps there should be a cycling profficiency license for cyclists. This could be for all major A and B roads, or main roads could be sign posted as cycle license roads. Kids could still ride around the back streets, but if you want to venture into the big yonder, then I firmly believe you must know what you are doing BETTER than a motorist, because you are more vulnerable.

What think you hmm

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

I'd go along with that
I'm definitely a fairweather weekend cyclist - no time during the week, and I tend to steer clear of busy roads - they terrify me a bit.
It's funny - I always give cyclists a very wide berth when I'm driving - if I can't then I slow right down. But some other motorists (the numpty minority) don't seem to accord me the same degree of courtesy when I'm on my bike - they seem intent on taking a few inches of skin off my right leg.
I can see how some cyclists develop anti-car sentiments.
And vice versa.

Cheers
Peter

. [/quote]

Yes, I agreee. I think that's a good idea to have a licensing system for cyclists. I'm not sure about how you categorize road use for such a licensing system. A cycle license should enable you to travel anywhere on a bike, except where certain types of vehicles are forbidden.

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Anyone who tells you that nothing is impossible has never bathed in a saucer of water.

Earlier this week I was driving home from work. Slowed down to stop at a pelican crossing. A woman went accross pushing a pram then shock horror, I cyclist goes hurtling accross inside of me completly ignoring the lights and narrowly avoiding the pedestrians. I could not believe my eyes. He did not look at all.

I have noticed more and more cyclists ignoring traffic lights and going accross on red.

You have to do a CBT to ride a scooter on the road. A cycle can easily go as fast and do just as much damage in an accident. Why is there no requirement for training these days.

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Speed camera policy Kills

The majority of cyclists are law abiding and considerate.

Probably in the main, they are the ones, like me, who were "forced" to do cycling proficiency at school, in addition to the frequent messages given to us about road safety (which kids don't seem to get now - see another thread)

There are a minority who seem to think that the rules of the road do not apply to them.

Perhaps a cycle license is a good idea. Certainly carrying third party insurance would be an excellent idea for when accidents do occur.

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

given that cycles inherit most of their access rights from horses.... would there have to be a horse license too?

can't see the countryside alliance letting that one slip through.

we seem to have enough trouble enforcing licenses (and tax.. and insurance) on cars, which are big lumps of metal whose users are a limited sample of the population (by age.. and budget).

pretty much anyone can hop on a bike at any time so i can only see any license enforcement being even less effective than driving licenses at stopping unqualified road users.

as for safety... obviously the enforcement of driving licenses means all users are safe driver all the time.. right ? thought not. so would it really make a difference?

oh and since the bikers can get away with derailing a thread talking about their bikes....


(this is before set up tweaking of my new frame so yes the saddle is waay too low and the tri-bars are at a silly angle)

<Petrolhead>Clearly needs a big engine strapped to that</Petrolhead>

Nice bike

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

just wait till i get my new wheels.... (race use only)

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

Can't disagree with any of that, Neil. As a careful, safe driver (quote from IAM observer) I think you can guess that I apply the same principles to cycling. I am very careful not to jump a red light, however much the temptation, as I know it one if the things that really p*ss off motorists. This includes temporary traffic lights. I came up to a stuck one this morning on my bike and got off and walked past it (unlike the motorists). Neil will no doubt confirm but I believe the penalty for passing a red light of any sort, unless directed to do so by a police officer, is 6 points on one's licence! I was doing a circuit this morning that meant that I had to wait up to 2 minutes 7 times at another temporary traffic light when others might have nipped round the corner regardless, again one or two motorists were ignoring the same lights.
By the way I have 3rd party insurance via membership of CTC.
And you might not like this but cyclists cannot be prosecuted for speeding but they can be for "wanton and furious cycling" - obviously the equivalent of dangerous driving.

If only I knew how to put photos on here

Then you could see my Giant TCR, with full Dura Ace groupset, and Dura Ace wheels.....cowin' lush

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

You show me yours, and I will show you some pictures of the shiny exhaust cans on my bike

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

That bike makes you look so small....and young

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'Detritus, get yer stoney arse over ere'

Looks like I am

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

Saiod it before.. there should be some kind of miminum standard on lines as Neil proposes.

We all did a cycling course up here recently. We learned how to ride up steps Very few officers escaped this training here. Actually - it was popular ...

There is a knack of riding in traffic safely - and would recommend that all at least read CycleCraft o similar book if they really want some fun on the bike.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.