Safe Speed Forums

I have been given a FPN from a traffic car for the following:
11:30pm Single carriageway NSL (but was showing roadwords 40mph signs, even though cones were all on the verges, no work in progress).
Distance was about a mile, between two roundabouts.
When stopped, lone policeman said I was going to get banned. He asked me how fast I was going, I avoided answering, he said 80, I hesitated and he said "say yes". He said I must have been doing about 110 (based on him having to change upto 4th gear at 100). He didn't show me any readings of my speed. I was literally shaking, but when I asked if I could avoid a ban he offered me a FPN.

I must add that I have never had any dealings with the police (good or bad), but if he could have banned me I'm sure he would have - cos he was very aggresive with me. I have talked to some friends (inc. a taxi driver) who all say he needs evidence, and if I took it to court should be dropped.

Should I take it to court? And if I do, since I'm turning down a FPN, I couldn't get banned could I?

Many thanks for taking time to read this, and yes I have learnt my lesson - I was shaking

Hmm. I think that they don't need video/photo evidence if an officer saw you doing it. If it went to court, it would be your word against his, and especially as you didn't deny you were speeding at the time, I think the court would be more inclined to believe the policeman.

I don't like the sound of "Say yes", though.. Seems a bit like intimidation to me.

_________________
-mike[F]
Caught in the rush of the crowd, lost in a wall of sound..

I hate these ambiguous situations. Let's try for a little more clarity and see where we go from there:

Did he caution you about "being reported for the offence"?

Have you got an FPN already? What does it say about the offence?

How's your licence? If it's clean then three points hurt less, although if you're unlucky enough to get up to nine, you could then regret not fighting number 1.

Did you know atthe time that the limit was 40mph? If there was anything wrong with the speed limit signing, or the temporary speed limit order, then you cannot be prosecuted for the offence.

Do you want to chuck money at it now? Can you afford to? I ask because I have an idea that will involve you in lawyers fees, but might succeed. Bear in mind that a recent study put the overall cost of 3 points at £1,100 over five years due to increased insurance and so on.

Visit: http://www.pepipoo.com where they fully specialise in "the motorist and the law". Safe Speed is more about road safety and the relationship between speed and safety - but I'll do my very best to help.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thanks for your replies!

I wasn't cautioned, my license will be clean in April, and I have the FPN. The offence code says F1603 (or possible E1603) Excess speed.

I'm just confused cos I wasn't shown any evidence, it seems its a case of I know you were speeding so heres a ticket without any documentry evidence. I think the roadworks signs are correct (looked at abd website), but if he could have banned me I would have thought he would.

Thanks for any help!

How long have you got before you have to respond to the FPN?

I'm just about to send an email to a "signing and regulations" expert, asking him to look at this thread. I'm not sure when he'll get the email, but I'm quite certain he'll have something to say.

I'm inclined to think this one may not be worth fighting - not least because I don't trust the cop who stopped you, but let's hear my expert's advice first.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thanks for your help Paul.

I was tempted to just roll-over on this one, but it seems wrong to get a ticket without evidence. If I took it to court, I'm sure he couldn't produce anything concrete (maybe doesn't have to) - Someone has advised me the ring the station and find out exactly what I have been reported for, but I don't want to forewarn the policeman by doing this.

I need to produce and surrender licence by Wednesday.

Edited to say does anyone know what the offence code means, cos they are normally SP30 etc.

Hi MOM,

It sounds like a try-on from the police.

Firstly, do you know if it was a traffic policeman? A lone policeman's testimony is insufficient on it's own and must be backed up by corroborative evidence (video etc).

It all sounds a bit suspicious to me and I think he is "at it". Probably hoping you roll over and take the punishment. Don't.

Can you post a clear message as to exactly what happened. There are avenues open to you.

_________________
cheers,
DM

Thanks for your reply DeMolay.

I and most people I have spoken to, agree its a try-on. I think if I allow this to happen with no real evidence, then its very worrying for us all. It was a lone traffic policeman, and he didn't show me any measurement of my speed other than with reference to him changing gear at 100mph. He said I would get banned if I took it to court, but he was so aggressive I can't believe he wouldn't do that if he could. My FPN is 'up' on Wednesday, so I'm running out of thinking time...

Thanks again for the replies!

Momentofmadness

You really have left this to the last moment to seek advice

It does on the face of what you say look 'not good' . But, if you refuse the fixed penaly, you can still plead guilty at any time upto the court case.

Once the papers are with the CPS, Then laid at court, the offence is, as it were fixed. ( by this I mean Plod can not vary the speed detail to bolster the offence).

If I were you. I would post every detail to PEPIPOO under 'Judicial Process'. ASAP... You will get excellent advice quite quickly. Allbeit, Wednesday is tight


Best Regards Chris

_________________
Retired, honest, law abiding, disgusted!

Thanks Chris!

Have posted this as suggested on the pepipoo forum.

Fingers crossed!

Regards,
MoM

Hi MOM,

Reading between the lines, it looks very much like a try-on. Maybe PC Plod had a bad evening that night. Who knows?

The fact that he did not show you any video evidence or even offered to show you the video is proof in itself that he is at it. This is further confirmed by the bully-boy nature of the threat that this will go to court so you had better take the FPN. Absolute rubbish.

The crowning piece of "magic" from plod is that you were speeding because he had to "change gears". Fancy that! I have never heard such a silly story.

DO NOT accept the FPN. You can either do nothing and wait for the summons to arrive (it may not) or you can write a letter to the police stating that you have declined their offer of a fixed penalty. In any event they will both ultimately lead to a summons.

If the summons ever arrives (I am dubious) then you would do well to follow the advice from the excellent pepipoo web site on this thread.

What is your plan?

_________________
cheers,
DM

Likely there was either another policeman in the car that stopped you or a video camera and radar. Police are unlikely to prosecute on single person testimony and I find it extremely unlikely you would have been stopped by a single policeman (it's getting more dangerous for them too).

Bear in mind you've admitted the offence and if you signed anything at the time then you're screwed basically.

Thanks for the replies!

I have phoned the FPN ticket office, and the ticket has not been put onto the computer yet (!) although the clerk did seem to have a back-log. It was a lone policeman, and the offence code on my FPN of E1603 means exceeding either a 50,60, or 70 limit (so it looks like the roadworks signs have been discounted).
I've been canvassing opinion all day at work, and all agree its wrong to just pay up - but its my licence at stake... The officer hasn't written a speed on my ticket which seems unusual too and fits in with the point I'm making (probably badly!)
I imagine cos I'm turning down a FPN (if I do) that it will automatically go to court? The ticket office clerk offered to email the officer in question to establish my speed, but I declined this offer!

Thanks for your help everyone.

It is definately a try on.



I would not at all be surprised if it never did.

_________________
cheers,
DM

Hi DM,

My main concern (at the 11th hour) is that the cop is holding back the ticket until he sees what I'm going to do - I hav spoken to a solicitor who said that the officer doesn't have to write a speed on my copy of the ticket. Will the officer (who seems a little dishonest) put an inflated figure on the ticket/statement is he realises I'm not rolling over and paying the FPN?
And in these times of such anti-speed messages, I am sure the officer will be successful without proper evidence - its very worrying to all of us...

Lets have your views guys and gals!

Keep us posted please as a very similar thing happened to me however a took the FPN.

_________________
The way the roads of North Wales are policed is WRONG and it must stop NOW.

BRUNSTROM OUT