Safe Speed Forums

Hi there,

I just got my notice of intended plundering from S.Yorks Police through. 38 in a 30 (that should be 40), mobile van hidden behind a hedge! The damned thing was like a strobe they must have got hundreds of people.

They nicely sent me an FAQ along with it, a few parts have got me wondering:-


"The person driving at the time stated lives abroad. What should I do now?"
'You need to provide corroration including proof that the person named was insured to drive the vehile. Enquiries will then continue with that person'

Is that true? What's it gotta do with me if I wasn't the one driving? Does 'they lied to me' count?


"Can I have a copy of the photograph?"
'This is a summary offence and no advance disclosure is required, The evidence is to support the prosecution case. However the photograph is normally of the rear of the vehicle and will not assist you in identifying the driver'

Figured this was somewhat misleading.. no surprises there.


"What if I don't sign the notice?"
'Contrary to recent media reoprts, Section 172(7) of the Road Traffic Act states that a notice should be returned signed. If a notice is returned unsigned the driver will be summonsed for "Failing to identify the driver"'

Obviously the 1st thing that comes to mind is who they gunna summonsed again? Looks like someone lost the plot on that one...
I was wondering if anyone knew or has a link to the current state of play regarding this.. I read the ABD website but it stops by saying the judgement is Jan2005. Couldn't find much beyond that.. sorry if it's old news.

Anyway, it got me knarked so I've started hassling the local speed camera partnership, asked a few Q's and it soon became plain that they're only interested in justifying their own position, and totally uninterested in anything as tedious as road safety!

Oh well, looks like i'm pleading guilty. Obviously I won't be watching crimewatch anymore!

Hi Shabba. Have you had a look at the forums at www.pepipoo.com yet? Lots of stuff there about the legal stuff and how to tackle it.

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That is utter crap.
The only person who is legally obliged to prove that a driver is insured is the person who was driving.



I can tell you what happens if you throw the NIP in the bin.......in about 6 weeks time they will send another one.
If you throw that in the bin as well, you don't seem to hear anything after that.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

They always hide behind a hedge. Always amuses me when they claim they don't... eh Steve?

Being visible is supposed to encourage compliance...allegedly... Usually on road where people read it as higher speed as it's usually nice and wide...

Rule of thumb Shabba by the way - if you don't see any little repeat lollies and there are street lights - usually 30 mph and if it looks like it's a nice safe road which should have higher speed limit - there'll be something in the hedges and you have to COAST for it.

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Did you know it was a 30 limit? If you did then why go through at 38?



Where were the 30mph signs hidden as well?

Well the owner of a car (or any other person) can be prosecuted for "permitting" the use of a vehicle without insurance. It is a common threat, I'm not sure how often they go through with a prosecution. A defence is that the vehicle was lent on condition that insurance is arranged - I imagine this is the defence that a garage would use if they have a crappy loan car they let people borrow and drive 3rd party on their own policy.

In a similar way passengers in cars "racing on a public highway" have been prosecuted for permitting the offence and given points.

Gareth

I thought it was a 40... the road is a dual carriageway, about as wide as a runway, perfectly straight with perfect visibilty. I travel the road everyday, have followed the police doing 40 on the same stretch several times. In the last 5 years I can't recall there ever being an accident there.

After I recieved the NIP I went to check out if there were any signs, there is one at either end of the 30 zone about 3 miles apart, there are no signs anywhere within the zone. The lampposts should have given it away I guess, but I genuinely thought it was 40 since I've followed police cars doing more than 40 along this road several times (the police station is at one end of the road so there are always lots of police about).

All academic really... since I've already been busted, was just wondering about their shady FAQ.

Isn't a dual carriageway automatically a 70 limit, even with lamp posts? If this is the case then there should be 30 mph repeaters along the length of the road.

No.

A dual-carriageway which isn't a motorway with streetlights and no repeaters automatically has a 30mph limit, just like any other non-motorway road. 30mph repeaters are not allowed in this case.

Only a motorway (whether dual carriageway or single carriageway) has a 70mph limit regardless of street lighting.

No. But I thought it was for about the first 5 years too. I would bet at least 50% of people think so too. There is obviously a big advantage to the scammers in keeping it very unclear.

That makes me wonder about a road locally. It's signed as NSL and it's a single carriageway running for about a mile or so between to traffic islands.

At one end, there are street lights which (to me) look to be less than 200m apart. There are no restriction signs, and, on entering from that end, there is an NSL sign. Does this make it NSL or 30? If NSL, shouldn't there be repeaters? All very confusing. Unless of course it has something to do with the height of the lampposts - they are rather tall.

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Stultus est sicut stultus facit - a known fact
Stercus accidit - a truism!

I fail to see how they can get away with that one.
If you are a passenger in a car and the driver starts behaving like a twat, there is absolutely nothing you can physically do to make them stop.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Yes it is confusing. If there is a NSL sign then it is definitely 60 or 70, never 30. In theory there should be NSL repeaters but the absence of them won't make it 30.

Legally there have to be 30 signs at the start of a 30 area, but 30 repeaters are not permitted in a 30 area unless there are no street lights - or insufficient, whatever that means. If you didn't pass a 30 sign, they can't enforce a 30 limit. They can still send you a NIP though, and you will then be forced to take the matter to court to prove that the charge is inadmissible.

Of course if it was hundreds of miles from where you live, most likely you will just pay up. I was done for 35 in a 30 in Anglesey (which I'm sure half the world knows by now ). The point is that I have no idea where the Talivan was hidden, so I have no idea whether the prosecution was legal or not. So I will just pay up and make a note never to go there again

I recall areas of street lighting in an NSL on the Consett bypass in County Durham. When this police car appeared, I slammed on the brakes, as I wasn't entirely sure whether it was NSL or not. (The next time I went that way, I had a look and there were no 30 signs, so there really should have been NSL repeaters.) At least there are no speed cameras up there.

Brian

But what if the first one were genuinely lost in the post? I've had items go missing, where I know the person sent it but I never received it. So the first you hear is when you receive the second one, two months after the alleged offence. How can you possibly be expected to remember the details of it after two months?

To make a 30 limit the street lights neet to be full size highway street lights installed by the county or highway authoity, not footpath street lights put up by the parish council. complicated ins't it!