Safe Speed Forums

I recently spotted one of the Norfolk Safety Camera Partnersip's vans parked perpendicular to the road in a concealed private driveway and obscurred from view by bushes and other parked cars along the side of the road. The only part you could see of this van from the road, was the top front 3/4 view of the windscreen back to the blacked out side window. Does this not contravene section 4.2 of the DfT handbook.

Secondly, the section (or even the whole length) of road it was parked on does not have any signage regarding the deployment of speed cameras (fixed or mobile). Does this not contravene sections 4.1 and 4.1.1 of the DfT handbook.

Finally, the section of road being monitored (30MPH limit) is the widest and safest part of that road (approx wide enough for 5 cars side by side) where the posibility of catching a motorist accidently and marginally exceeding the speed limit is at its highest and consequently generates the most revenue from speeding fines ( bearing in mind that this is on a hill and you can coast down this road quicker than 30mph). Yet only 500 metres further down the road, it narrows considerably where traffic is forced into the middle of the road by parked cars, there are numerous concealed road junctions and pedestrian traffic is a lot heavier. Surely it is this section of the road that needs monitoring as there is a far grater risk of an accident. However, most drivers are aware of the dangers at this section of the road and moderate their speed accordingly which makes it hard for the mobile speed cameras to catch anyone. So it looks like the Norfolk Safety Camera Partnership are sticking their heads in the sand as far as safety is concerned and is only interested in collecting revenue and pissing off carefull and safe motorists.

Can anyone advise if something can be done about this. It's getting out of hand.

PS you can download a copy of the DfT handbook from their official website www.dft.gov.uk

Trial by press. Photograph the bugger next time.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Are you sure it was enforcing? My guess is, if it was in a private driveway, the driver or passenger had nipped home for some refreshments or a comfort break.

or maybe permission had been granted by the owner to park there, dougb stated the vehicle was parpendicular to the road so side door / window would be used for enforcement

on our operators notes sheet we have a section which state if we are enforcing, oncoming , departing or both directions of traffic flow, so if that area was the only possible location to park IMO enforce oncoming only

signage it should be clearly signed

It seems to me that the DFT handbook is no more than snake oil. For example rule 5, regarding visibility distances, and the statement "For mobile speed camera sites, although the camera technology may allow, partnerships are not permitted to detect vehicles outside the approved site."

I have seen that some partnerships target vehicles at huge distances. For instance rule 5 clearly states that enforcement is "not permitted" outside 100m from the mobile camera at speeds of 40mph and over.

Partnerships openly admit that they target vehciles at 600m on NSL roads.

If you cant see a van from that far away on a open NSL road you need your eyes tested.

But the camera operators are apparently meant to make a prior judgement whether a vehicle is speeding before actually measuring the vehicle's speed. Judging a vehicle's speed accurately from 600m is not going to be particularly easy.

A 2m wide object doing about 70mph at a distance of 600m will appear to get larger by only about 30 arcseconds in 1 second of time (that's probably less than 1/100th of the apparent size of your little finger at arms length from you).
A 2m wide object doing 50mph at a distance of 600m will appear to get larger by about 20 arcseconds in 1 second of time.

That difference has got to be tough to detect. 10 arcseconds is the size that a 1p piece would have from about 1/4 of a mile away.

Its not the point that you can't see the van - the point is that the DFT guidelines clearly state that although the laser is capable of up to 999.99m (in the case of LTI 2020) enforcement should only take place within 100m

And Richard B is correct, the laser should only be used to confirm the suspicion on the operator that the vehicle is speeding, it should not be the initial detection device.

Hi Mungo

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