Safe Speed Forums

Saw this report on the telly this evening and thought you guys and gals might enjoy it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7840369.stm

What a result!
But listen at approx 1:20 into the report: "The police offered to prosecute him at the reduced speed of 80mph" F**king unbelievable!

Sad thing now is that he's having to ride his bike as it seems his costs have cleaned him out

I agree, astonishing behaviour. It's almost saying "We got it wrong but we still want to make some money out of you"

How many bites of the cherry do they want? It's despicable.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

A satisfactory result, IMO, would be the judge ordering/recommending the police to suspend such operations untill they are able to take readings accurate enough to reflect the seriousness of criminalising drivers and quite possibly robbing them of their livelihoods.

This kid was acquitted only because he was able to demonstrate his car was incapable of the alleged speed, therefore the "crime" with which he was charged was impossible. Presumably, if his car had a bigger engine, he'd have been found guilty with the falsified evidence. The question here is about the ability of the police to provide reliable evidence, untill addressed it makes a mockery of the justice process.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

Could this prosecution given the 'evidence' against him be classed as malicious? Given that the camera in no way managed to prove guilt, why take the case forward if for no other reason to extract money.

I wonder how this squares with obtaining money with threats / deception?

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

yet another fold by the CPS, i wonder if the Camera operator was in court, i tend to think not

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7840369.stm

actual reading taken at 12.20.25 nr 20

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now retired

I'd tell them to get stuffed, they haven't issued him with a NIP for 80 in a 70 and even if they did so it would be outside the 14 days.



I really hope he is able to claim these back. The CPS are quite good at tacking on costs when you lose so they should bloody well pay up now.

Just how clapped would any fairly modern car have to be to fail to get to 85mph? It's probably best it off the road if it's in that kind of state

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

Interesting concept - how do you think things may have differed if the operator was in court?

I know it's pure speculation but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

no problem

if the operator was in court they would have stated the passing vehicle did not interupt the laser, for the simple fact the laser was not being fired, but the CPS would not know that

is it me or does the passenger look like the defendant
is it me the car in the camera film has a grey bonnet, unlike the tested model
is it me but the car in the camera film has different plate style from the tested model

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now retired

If you full-screen it and then play it using the pause you'll see that the plate looks the same....the passenger has a hat on and a thin face....and the bonnet is reflecting light from above....

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56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

The numberplate looks the same to me, it's possible that it's been "de-bricked" in the police video, which is where the black plastic lump that provides a flat surface is removed and the existing plate bent to fit, however the video isn't really clear enough to tell. It's not hard to put the brick back on.

Also it appears to have a black bonnet, this like the de-brick is a popular modification on Japanese cars since it's going for the "drift style" look, though of course the proper drift cars will be using a carbon bonnet. Actually these days they do it to Corsas and stuff too.

In another version of the story I read he'd sold the car on and had to buy it back, so it's possible the next owner decided to get rid of the tacky modifications and put it back to standard.

look at 00.34 on the BBC video distinct blue GB european style plate



not the best quality, could it be black hair and a thin face, the driver appears taller and older



look at 00.24 in on the BBC video, picture of a car with a grey bonnet

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now retired

My considered (and very sincere) evaluation of this:

In this case, unless the gun was wildly misaligned with the camera such that the laser missed the vehicle completely, I do not see how slip error could add 13mph to that reading (not the 11mph as the newsreader stated).

His being in lane 3 suggests he was passing traffic, so he should have been going faster than the other cars; hence the hypothesis of the gun measuring one of the approaching other cars doesn't stack up. The laser bouncing off a receding vehicle would have given a negative reading (regardless of where else it bounced). However, the laser could have reflected back from the Armco.

I also can't help but notice he was on a downhill section of road and has passed the crest about 15 seconds before the speed reading was taken; how much speed was built up prior to that crest?

My analysis, based on several sets of visual cues from the video, assuming the distance reading is correct (verifiable by means outside of my reach), puts the car at 102mph +/- 5mph. Granted motion compensation could have buggered my reference points - but by that much, for all of my readings?

I personally know for a fact that the LTI is deeply flawed and will give erroneous speed readings, but I’m not yet entirely convinced of the validity of this person's claims.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Look at the video again. The asterisk appears just before the cross hairs hit the wing mirror of another car the width of the beam is about right for that to happen. Does the defendants car look like its going 20mph faster than everyone else? no.
The device was being misused and also may not have been allinged properly.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Frame by frame replay shows that the speed reading is acheived when the silver car pulls across the laser cross hairs, so the speed reading is the speed plus the distance between the 2 cars. The silver car is clearly going faster than the subject car - of course the camera operator would have known this, so I agree with camera operator, he/she probably wasn't in court. To give evidence would have required him/her to perjur himself.

This is a good example of the many flaws in the obsession with camera enforcement, it's all about money.

rubbish, would you like to explain to the viewing public how the device was mis used



double rubbish, the speed reading does not appear immediately after the pulses are returned

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now retired

It most certainly does, it's a good job you are no longer SCP staff if you are willing to put that kind of rubbish forward. Probably why millions are prosecuted on such flimsy and inaccurate information also if this is the quality of the evidence gathering.

damn you got me again

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now retired

Well put it another way, the video clearly shows that there is never a clean line of sight to the car.
It is proven that the car is not capable of the speed claimed, bear in mind that actual speed of 98 would require a speedo reading of around 110 - 115 depending on tyre inflation speedo magnet wear etc.
The car is an L reg Jap crap hatchback that looks as if it'd fall apart at 80.

What more do you want, I can't see any JATO rockets attached to the back, perhaps you will advise me otherwise?

And just because I have nothing better to do, in the video 4 cars pull out in front of the target car. 3 are clearly going faster than the target car, and one marginally slower, since the target car catches it up slightly.

So if it is the contention of the operator that the target car was going 98, why did he fail to 'ping' 4 other car doing the same and higher speeds?

It would be interesting to see a longer clip, where I have no doubt it will show cars travelling at a similar speed to the target car, but the laser reading will be nearer the speed limit.