Safe Speed Forums

Hi there.

First off, let me excplain I am quite ignorant as to all the ins and outs of what to do in this circumstance so please bear with me if I sound stupid with this question.

I have had my car, a Vauxhall Astra 1.6 merit for 2 and a half years now. Its MOT was July31st 2010, Its Tax was June 31st 2010 for 6 months, so due to expire december 2010.

My insurance was renewed for a year on May 22nd 2010.

My car broke down yesterday afternoon and I have been told the engine is badly damaged and the fix would come into the middle/late hundreds. The car is barely worth 500 so I have no intention of fixing it.

What do I now do about the tax and Insurance?

If I scrap the car do I just cancel my tax completely?

If I keep the car on the roadside obviously unusable, I have to get a SORN am I correct?

Do I get my final 4 weeks or so refunded?

With the Insurance, when do I let them know about the car?

Do I still have to pay the cars insurance up untill May 2011 even if the car is scrapped?

What about if the car is on the roadside with SORN? Does that still require insurance?

Hopefully people can make this all clear for me.

Thanks

Rob

If your car is on the public highway it cannot be SORNed. You must have valid VED. You are too late to claim refund for December anyway.

Insurance should also only be cancelled if the vehicle is off the public highway but you should generally be able to get a refund of sorts from your insurer.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

So where do I have to have it to get it sorned?

If it is scrapped I take it you just dont renew tax altogether?

Who do you have to let know?

Google is your friend

http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Ow ... DG_4022058

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

A car (especially an older one) is worth what it will cost to replace it, NOT what you migtht be able to sell it for.

I am guessing from your description that you have a broken cambelt (Frozen water pump perhaps, not enough antifreeze?? Happens a lot this time of year)

If the car is otherwise in reasonable condition spending 5-700 on fixing it might well represent better V for M than spending a grand or two on a replacement.

Better the devil you know and all that!

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Yellow pages or the local rag.
"Good prices paid for scrap cars"
About 80 quid, and you'll get a "ticket" that says the vehicle has been scrapped through a licenced disposer.
Make SURE you get a receipt or the scrapped ticket, there is a market for numberplates....if you sell it as a "going concern" then make sure you get the buyers CORRECT name and address......
Make sure you send the V5 to DVLA with section 9 filled in and get the trader to sign it.
YOU are liable until DVLA are notified of the change of owner or scrapping.
A cambelt kit is about 130 quid and labour for a change about 4 hours. But if you have trashed the valves you can add-on about 100 quid + for new valves....and maybe a new camshaft. Cheaper to get a used cylinder head.
EDIT: And a new water pump, as in NEW.
The cylinder heads are about 100-200 on ebay...or more !

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

The car was damaged already, it has a leak in the automatic gearbox, meaning I had to kepe topping it up with fluid every week = 8 quid, not to mention the extra petrol it was costing as it wouldnt get into the right gears because of this.

Radiator also buckled and broke.

Its an old astra 1997 model so I was planning to wait until something terminal happened to it and then get a new one. Hoped it wouldve lasted til the new year as its not usually THIS cold untill January, but there you go.

So basically insurance and tax have to caryr on as normal untill it is scrapped? Do I have to send them proof of scrappage?

When you SORN it where does it have to be parked?

Thanks for replies.

(Malcolm covered this, but to verify)
Insurance - carry on if car is left on public highway ... some gap in your ins is OK. You only loose your insurance No Claims Discount, after about 2 yrs (but that maybe a bit shorter now)
.. talk to your insurance co as they might reduce the Ins down to fire and theft and give you a little discount but sometimes admin costs make it completely pointless.

Remove car onto a private driveway and put ins on min or stop as appropriate ....


bearing in mind that if they do not send off your sold to trader section you will still be considered the registered keeper and whatever happens to the car you will in essence, still be considered responsible for I would do everything in my power to prove sale and to whom with ALL contact details and a clear receipt from them (their name, contact phone, email, date of sale and their full name of business and full address and signature / name printed to show and proof of sale. I would then send that to the DVLA taking time to send and email and copy all correspondence.
I would go online too and with the copy of the log book (that you of course have done), register the car scrapped. Send your mail to the DVLA by certified receipt as a minimum, if not guaranteed delivery.
This way you are covered in case anything goes wrong later.


On private ground. Can park on a friend's property, with permission of course, but make sure there is a clear time limit and make sure you have a signed copy that you have permission to leave the car there for that period.
(When you scrap the car they may find it odd that it is at a different address to your own.)
Usually scrapping cars is a fairly quick event.
You can call the large re-cycle centres / dismantleres directly and see if they can pick up quickly. That may save you the hassle of parking it up with a friend.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Ok thanks for the help.


So just to recap for my utter understanding.

I will probably scrap the car within the next couple of weeks.

Once it is scrapped I send the recipt to the DVLA so then they know it wont need to be taxed in 2011.

I then inform the insurance and then I take it I'll have to buy them out?

AND ,if tackling the waterpump - three NEW allen bolts - be prepared for lots of bother getting the old ones out . The top CAMBELT cover on them( from experience of Cavaliers) is held on by the top pulley -and doing it correctly ,you need to take off top pulley , to take off cover .( But IMHO the cambelt at top is better seen - so taking off a head ,I'd leave pulley on ,and adjust cover with hacksaw .Replacing head - USE NEW BOLTS.To get at the exhaust manifold - remove radiator ( worked a treat on MK2 & 3 cAVS).Inlet manifold , easier on injection models ,but tight for space .
Overall , the head remove/replace on a Cav is one of the easiest I've done ( and the Astra is the same engine, slightly smaller body)
Replacing the gearbox is a drop the subframe ( on Cavs, possibly the same on Astras) .

On the other hand - might be worth ad in local paper ,as said - someone with a decent engine/box , might be looking for a decent body .
Above , thinking out loud -as in experiences of owning a few Vauxhalls ,and perhaps passing on what I've learned from experience .

IF SCRAPPING - I'd advise sending V5 RECORDED -seen too many cases on PH of lost mail in DVLA .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

A proper "End-of-life-vehicle-authorised-treatment-facility" (sounds much better than "scrapper" doesn't it?! ) will be licensed to issue a "Certificate of Destruction" for it. Normally, I think that goes electronically to the DVLA and without it, it doesn't really matter what you write on the registration document or whether you tell them that it has been scrapped - they won't believe you!

This should answer some of your questions:

http://www.scrapcar.co.uk/faqs.php

but if you Google for "disposing of a scrap car" you get plenty of hits.

As has been said, you can't claim back the tax (only complete months) and it can't be on a public road of SORNed - but other than that, it's fine.

Sorry to hear of its demise - this isn't the time of year to be stuck without one!

MOLE- you better than most, should be able to answer this - sort of mechanical hearsay - that on the Vauxhall engines ( as in Astra/Cav) --in the event of cambelt failure - the cam followers got the hit - no damage occurred to valves/pistons . To me sounds like some form of mechanical fuse , where the top end broke down to save valves/pistons getting carved up . Me- I always liked the idea of the top section of the cover being carved off - allowed you to examine cambelt when changing plugs ( stick socket on bottom pulley ,and rotate to check belt . )

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Haven't a clue, I'm afraid - sorry! I'll ask around though. I have heard of some engines, but can't remember which - (possibly Renault?) where something "sacrificial" breaks rather than trash pistons & valves, but the trouble is that you need the valves to be lovely and light so that they don't have much inertia and you can scream the nuts off yer motah to get lots of lovely power (and noise)! . Unfortunately, with that admirable attribute, comes fragility - especially if they are angled relative to the piston crown - which can help the gas flow.

I'm still not sold on the idea of belt-driven cams to be honest. I know they're quieter, lighter, and probably cheaper than the equivalent chain drive, but they have been the source of great misery for many (myself included)! I'm told that in the 'States, manufacturers have to make engines last for at least 100,000 miles with nothing other than lubricant and filter changes (possibly plugs too - can't remember) to aviod falling foul of their "lemon laws". They, needless to say, tend to go for chain-driven cams. They seem to be making a comeback here too, due to the huge labour costs involved with a belt change.

And it's not just the belt that the change advice is for . Don't know about other makers, but VAG diesels (where the majority /possibility all of belts are used) are slowly reducing the frequency of changes , along with an advisory to change the tensioners ( which like Ford alternator belt ones) tend to fail ( and it's "as easy at belt time to change these " ) . Another advisory at same time ( for little outlay at same time , on its own costs MONEY) is the water pump . VAG did start off advising a lot of years ( can't remember how many) and approx 120k miles .It's now down to 4/5 years and 60k miles . But on VAG - we've got tensioners etc .( OH-and an upwards of approx £300 + service , for the privilege-)
On his Astra ,he's only got the waterpump as the tensioner ( modern technology takes backward step ). And on the Vauxhalls's I've owned/worked on - no need to slacken off the waterpump - the belt comes off sideways /goes on the same way ,whilst slowly turning over the engine . But again ,on ye olde Vauxhall ( not the Opal copies) - there was never any problem if a belt failed - the engine stopped ,and the gap at all times between valve and piston was too great . AH , sigh for ye old fashioned technology .

Personally ,like you ,I prefer the old metal chain - if it gets dodgy -it gets noisy . Only engine I've seen one fail on was an ancient Mazda 1600 -which stopped naturally, no sign/sound of valve /piston mating .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

In essence yes, but if you are at all unsure call the DVLA and your insurance. They can advise you in detail as they will have all of your information and facts surrounding the whole situation.
Remember to keep copies of everything, get everything signed (& name printed) by those you deal with. Once you have cancelled the insurance write to the insurance company confirming this. (Bit over kill but hey better safe than sorry in this sad day and age.)

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

I say bring back push rods Mole/Botach.

No need for Teflon-coated chain guides or automatic chain adjusters, which never worked anyway, and taking the head off is a doddle.

The old Honda CX500 would rev to 10,000rpm using them!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

You would still need a chain to drive the cam shaft though wouldn't you? (unless anyone knows differently.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Some are, or were, chain-driven, although with much shorter chains. Others are gear-driven.

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Only when ideology, prejudice and dogma are set aside does the truth emerge - Kepler

Think Tone is referring to push rod as opposed to cam driven valves -( as per the name -side valve as opposed to overhead cam) .Only other type I've been onside was a Fiat 500 -but that was long time ago and it was more like a bike engine -no cam ,just pushrods .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

Engine design isn't really my field, but I suspect that there's a downside to having valves that don't hit the pitsons when the cam belt fails - otherwise everyone would do it. I'm guessing it's in terms of power and / or emissions. Tone, it's impressive getting a pushrod engine to rev that high, but there are options open to bike manufacturers that simply aren't available to car manufacturer as the emissions requirements for cars are so much tighter. I mean, bikes still had carburettors until relatively recently!