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starfin
 Post subject: School Crossing Patrols
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:33 
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4444864.stm

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Safety plea over lollipop patrols

Drivers are being asked to keep speed down near patrols
Motorists in Cornwall who are abusive to lollipop men and women or do not stop for them are being targeted in a road safety campaign.
The "Stop Means Stop" campaign will remind motorists they can face penalty points, fines of up to £1,000, or disqualification from driving.

There are 123 school crossing patrols across the county.

The county council's road safety unit says a near miss is reported every week because of drivers not stopping.

Revving engines

County Road Safety Officer Joan Mallard said: "With ever increasing traffic on our roads throughout the county, it is increasingly important that we encourage motorists to drive safely.

"We ask drivers to be mindful of the important job our patrols do and to help them, not hinder them."

The unit said drivers may not be aware they were breaking the law by driving around the patrol when in the road or driving too close to the patrol.

Revving engines while the patrol and children are in the road is also an offence.

Drivers are being asked to keep their speed down and to be prepared to stop when asked to do so by a patrol.


What hope is there given this sort of driver stupidity? Forget the fines, personally I'd like to see a community sentence for these sort of offences.
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Rigpig
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:58 
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Sadly, this sort of behaviour is not confined to the chavs or otherwise non-conforming drivers.
I suppose its a sign of impatience and the pressures and the frustration people feel at 'yet another holdup' on their way to work. Absolutely no excuse for it at all however.
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hobbes
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 13:05 
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I entirely agree.

However, as most of the crossing patrollers are civvies (in the twilight years) it would also be helpful if they were more aware of stopping distances to aid the drivers and not just gather a group of kids & march out without a pause. How about not just wandering out when they deem a good opportunity, but to have a staged system a-la traffic lights. They stand on the kerb & angle the 'lolipop' forward for a few seconds to give a hint that they intend to 'protect & serve'.

I saw a prime example yesterday in Glasgow. A group of teens about 20 strong were 'itching' to run the gauntlet at a Ped. X. The lady charged with their safety pre-empted the runners by swiftly walking out between cars. One passed only feet away from her, and then there was a lot of harsh braking involved....there are actually lights at the crossing, but why use them when you have 'the wand of power'. I honestly can't make up my mind if she acted in good faith for the greater good, or just went 'sod it'. :lol:
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starfin
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 13:22 
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hobbes wrote:
How about not just wandering out when they deem a good opportunity, but to have a staged system a-la traffic lights. They stand on the kerb & angle the 'lolipop' forward for a few seconds to give a hint that they intend to 'protect & serve'.


I think that is an excellent idea. But I also think that good observation by drivers and the crossing patrol warden should really be sufficient. The crossing patrol wardens are actually quite well trained and periodically assessed, unlike the majority of drivers!
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antera309
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 14:19 
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Many lollipop ladies do angle their sign into the road and glare at drivers of oncoming vehicles for a few seconds before stepping out. Others don't.

In either case, there's no excuse for ignoring the sign and blasting past them. They're not speed cameras wanting to ruin your life, they're just helping young kids cross the road. They delay caused is minimal.

The courts should throw the book at people who ignore lollipop ladies. A 4-figure fine and a 1 year ban at least.

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Capri2.8i
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 15:56 
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There are good and bad patrols. The good ones will stick their pole out for a short period before venturing into the road and then allow a bit of traffic past after coming back to the pavement. I've seen some though that will near enough camp in the middle of the road and it's a miracle when they let any cars past as there is always someone on the approach to the crossing, so they wait, and then when they have got accross someone else is on the approach, so they wait again! Of course thats absolutely no excuse for ignoring patrols or for revving/tooting, but cars have got to be allowed past otherwise drivers will get stressed. It also goes without saying that extreme caution needs to be exercised when passing a patrol but some consideration must be given to traffic flow.
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SafeSpeed
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 16:21 
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starfin wrote:
What hope is there given this sort of driver stupidity? Forget the fines, personally I'd like to see a community sentence for these sort of offences.


While individual drivers are responsible for individual incidents, I also blame the system for creating more selfish and 'under pressure' drivers.

A few more carrots and a few less sticks would go a long long way towards developing improved driver behaviour.

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Gizmo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 17:07 
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My wife used to be a lollipop lady at the school the kids went to. The worst ones were dads dropping their kids of and showing off wheel spinning and driving like a twat. Others were women who were in a dream world.

Every now and again she reported persistant offenders and was given a bobby to stand near by to get evidence......busted :wink:

One of the worst offenders repeat offenders (a black XR4I) didn't even have valid tax.....you just can't fix stupid.

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starfin
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 17:14 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
starfin wrote:
What hope is there given this sort of driver stupidity? Forget the fines, personally I'd like to see a community sentence for these sort of offences.


While individual drivers are responsible for individual incidents, I also blame the system for creating more selfish and 'under pressure' drivers.

A few more carrots and a few less sticks would go a long long way towards developing improved driver behaviour.


I'd agree with you there Paul. The only carrot seems to be slightly cheaper insurance if drivers manage to avoid being involved in an accident, a poor proxy for good driving in my opinion. On the stick side, fines favour the wealthier, wheras a community sentence is equally inconvenient for rich and poor, and often has benefits for the offender.
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Observer
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 17:26 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
While individual drivers are responsible for individual incidents, I also blame the system for creating more selfish and 'under pressure' drivers.

A few more carrots and a few less sticks would go a long long way towards developing improved driver behaviour.


Yes. We have to find a way of making people want to be better drivers. Punishing people for technical infringements which are not safety violations (frequently applies to speeding) serves only to dilute the impact of a punishment for a genuine safety violation. It's Janet and John level psychology but nevertheless apparently beyond the grasp of the authorities.
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Brookwood
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 17:32 
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I agree with all the posts here but there are occasions when our local crossing patrols tend to stop the traffic on a whim to let one child across the road and then 30 seconds later another and so on. Surely gathering a few children together wouldn't do any harm.

It is also a bit annoying when a child and mother walk across then the traffic gets stopped immediately for the mother to walk back again.

I know I am a grumpy old motorist but when there are three patrols on a road over a distance of about three hundred yards it can be very frustrating. And cars double parked and mums pulling in and out, it's a nightmare in the mornings and afternoons.

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Rigpig
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 17:32 
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Observer wrote:
Punishing people for technical infringements which are not safety violations (frequently applies to speeding) serves only to dilute the impact of a punishment for a genuine safety violation.


:clap:
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SafeSpeed
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 17:34 
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Observer wrote:
It's Janet and John level psychology but nevertheless apparently beyond the grasp of the authorities.


Hear, hear.

They behave as if they need to influence the behaviour of cars rather than people. I find it absolutely inexplicable.

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Common sense
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 18:12 
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Surly again it depends on the circumstance.

One idiot on a route I venture on occasionally has his crossing on the entrance and exit of a roundabout.
The thing is it doesnt strike me as stupidity, more as arrogance.

"STOP Im important, children shouldn’t have to venture down that road, they have to cross at this very location”.
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starfin
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 18:38 
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Common sense wrote:
Surly again it depends on the circumstance.

One idiot on a route I venture on occasionally has his crossing on the entrance and exit of a roundabout.
The thing is it doesnt strike me as stupidity, more as arrogance.

"STOP Im important, children shouldn’t have to venture down that road, they have to cross at this very location”.


The crossing points are chosen by the council not the crossing warden. I've seen one, a five exit roundabout where children are ushered into the central reservation (if that's the right term) then across again to the exit with the school. The warden certainly earns her money on this one. The alternative would be five crossing wardens, one on each of the arms of the roundabout.
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Observer
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 18:47 
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Common sense wrote:
Surly again it depends on the circumstance.

One idiot on a route I venture on occasionally has his crossing on the entrance and exit of a roundabout.
The thing is it doesnt strike me as stupidity, more as arrogance.

"STOP Im important, children shouldn’t have to venture down that road, they have to cross at this very location”.


Hmm. I can see a dilemma here. If the crossing is (say) 100m down the road, there's a risk that people/children will choose to cross anyway at the roundabout (rather than detour to and from the crossing point) and have no 'protection' from the warden. Having it on/close to the roundabout is certainly not ideal but may be the least worst option.
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BottyBurp
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 17:53 
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Again, apologies for raking up an old discussion...

Near where I live, the lollipop ladies stand on Pelican Crossings and keep their fingers permanently pressing the button - whether there are kids about or not. And as per previous postings, we also have the kamikaze Lollipop - just dives out every few seconds. Conversely, there is one lollipop man who makes sure that if you've been held up once, he waits until you've gone through before stopping the traffic again.

By saying all this, I am in NO WAY condoning motorists who don't stop, rev engines etc...

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civil engineer
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 18:08 
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Lolipop men/women/persons? should be well trained and respected for what they do.

If they are acting in an unprofessional manner or you feel that they are incorrect in some fashion you should take it up with the LA.

Chavs and Scammers are the my join number one dislikes...they should be sent to a reserve where they can roam free without bothering the rest of us.
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BottyBurp
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:08 
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civil engineer wrote:
If they are acting in an unprofessional manner or you feel that they are incorrect in some fashion you should take it up with the LA.
:lol: :lol: :lol: You obviously don't know Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council - I'm still waiting for some reported potholes to be fixed (1998!)

civil engineer wrote:
Chavs and Scammers are the my join number one dislikes...they should be sent to a reserve where they can roam free without bothering the rest of us.

Far too good for them... :)

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BottyBurp
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:12 
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As a point of interest, a couple of years ago, one of the Lollipop ladies close to where I used to live was actually run over by an angry motorist, purely because she did keep just jumping out to let kids across. It made the national news...

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